What Would You Do Differently?

TheRedStranger · June 4, 2016

Another fun thought experiment. Unlike Satam Reconstructed where you reconstruct and improve upon ideas from the original writers and artists of the show, this section is all about redesign. Start with a story element of the show and retool it in a new and way exciting way. I will throw the first morsel of food for thought:

How would you do the Coupe differently?

ToaArcan · June 5, 2016

I think the coup, as it happened, was pretty alright. However, if I could change it, I'd probably make the start less obvious. In the episode, it's not exactly subtle. The streets fill with SWATbots, including that badass-looking blue one that we never saw in anything else, and then Julian smashes his warship into the palace, steps out and announces his intentions.

In this case, I'd have the whole thing start much quieter, with people disappearing. Thye just vanish without rhyme or reason, except, of course, they're getting rounded up and roboticized. By the time Max and co. know what's going on, there's already a huge number of Robians.

I think this would fit a little more with Robotnik's style. Unlike modern Eggman, Robotnik was not alien to subtlety. We know from Ben Hurst's plans that his first scheme to take over wasn't bombastic at all, it went like so:

Step 1: Kidnap Princess' friend

Step 2: Turn friend into psychic computer thing.

Step 3: Use computer to rewrite everyone's memories so they see Robotnik as the rightful leader.

If Nicole hadn't lashed out and erased Robotnik's memories of the plan, he would've taken over without anyone ever knowing that it was a takeover. So I think a more quiet approach would've worked pretty well.

Mike Arcade · June 5, 2016

Impressive, I'd go for a similar route though I think a big attack would make for a good distraction elsewhere that wasn't the palace in Mobotropolis, and while that happens Robotnik takes the king, checkmate.

Regarding Nicole though SatAM wise Robotnik really did a number on her, and gave her WAY too much power if we go by Ben Hurst's proposal, he really placed his bets on her as his ultimate weapon and was far too confident that he could control her, but that is how Robotnik works.

On that note guys I've got two questions of my own.

1. How would you do Nicole's Origins in SatAM?

My 2nd question on the other hand regards the lack of limelight she had in SatAM, that being...

2. When it comes to Bunnie, what would you have done with her?

ToaArcan · June 5, 2016

1) With regards to how Nicole would've been done, almost exactly as Hurst planned.Her just being a computer that gained sentience and developed a fascination with Mobians is nice and all, but her once being a Robian makes it a lot better in my eyes. With regards to her powers, I'd have them be something she had before she got stuck in a computer. Maybe not quite as powerful, but present. We know that her deliberate spells weren't going to be that great- Sonic was supposed to keep remembering, no matter how ahrd she tried to stop him, so I would cast her initial attack on Robotnik to be one of pure fear and rage, not a controlled thing, which would actually cause some permanent damage to his psyche. In turn, this damaged part of his mind would be further aggravated by Sonic, Sally, and the rest of the FF during the war, leading to his deteriorating mental state.

2) Bunnie is a bit more tricky. She was fine in Season 1, but when Season 2 happened, Hurst dropped the ball with regards to her and Rotor. In particular, Bunnie was pushed out of the limelight largely by Dulcy, so I'd give the latter a reduced role. During missions, I'd have her paired off with Sonic, as opposed to with the others, on the logic that she makes a lot of noise and is more suited to wrecking stuff to give Sally and co. an opening or covering the backs of her friends than she is to sneaking around. Outside of the action scenes, give her a lot of time just interacting with the others. She struck me as being the one person in the team that everyone could count on- She had her own troubles over her cyborg parts, but she wasn't neurotic like Sally, shy like Rotor, cowardly like Antoine, basically an orphan since birth like Tails, or putting on a snarky prick persona as a coping mechanism like Sonic. She could be the rock, the irreplaceable core of the team that everyone could be open and honest with.

F07E · June 5, 2016

5 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

1. How would you do Nicole's Origins in SatAM?

I'd keep it like sea3on, really good programming from sally's deceased mother as a final gift, with a few hints of halo's cortana thrown in.

5 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

2. When it comes to Bunnie, what would you have done with her?

i would have tried to make her more like she was in season 1, pair her up a little more with the other character during missions/episodes, and pretty much just try and develop her character more alongside everyone else.

Wulfsbane · June 6, 2016

4 hours ago, F07E said:

i would have tried to make her more like she was in season 1, pair her up a little more with the other character during missions/episodes, and pretty much just try and develop her character more alongside everyone else.

Expand on that a bit. Give us a scenario along the lines of Season 2. Who do you think Bunnie would have been best with in an episode?

F07E · June 6, 2016

hmmm, she was another heavy hitter alongside sonic, but she lacked his speed which doesn't really make her good for distractions. so I probably would alternate her between sally and antoine, mainly due to the fact she seems more suited as being the one watching the infiltrators backs, she mitigates the risks of most threats by eliminating them quickly and efficiently, and if things were to go south she can hold off aggressors and help cover a retreat. as far as her role outside of the action however, I couldn't put it any differently than arcan already said, she's the rock, the most dependable member of the team, there's not much more to add aside from wanting to see her interact with tails a bit more.

TheRedStranger · July 20, 2016

How would you portray Antoine, or make his character grow in theoretical seasons beyond the second one?

ToaArcan · July 20, 2016

Antoine's difficult. He was the joke character for the most part, his whole thing was that he didn't really grow, because he was the loser that was kinda there to make Sonic look better. Atthe same time, we've seen Archie develop him, but eventually they ran out of stuff to do with him and he got a little boring. One of the tings I like about the reboot is that they actually brought back some semblance of a rivalry with Sonic, not over Sally's affections, but just picking a SOnic's almighty ego.

Maybe start up the Bunnie/Antoine thing- I'm pretty fond of having the whole "Powerful girl, sensitive guy" stereotype reversal, it's something I aim for with Tails/Fiona in my own writing, but it's sort of undermined by Tails being an unlikely badass with Chaos powers and all manner of crazy technological weapons, topped off with an unbreakable spirit, and Fiona being a normal with a host of vulnerabilities and weaknesses that have dominated her life. She might be tough on the exterior, and Tails more quiet and reserved, but when the chips are down, Tails is going to be theone that solves the problem, and Fiona's going to be the one needing help. Thus, I prefer Bunnie and Antoine in this respect, and I liked what they were doing with that in the comics until Ian completely mangled their rekindling of their relationship

Of course, getting it up and running involves moving Antoine past his fixation on Sally, probably with having to accept that Sonic and Sally are just going to be a thing.

That said, when it comes to continuing SatAM stuff, I'm looking at this with the idea of the world actually progressing and not pulling a Sea3on and smashing the Status Quo button with a gravity hammer.

Ishapar · July 20, 2016

Nicole: I like what Sea3on has done with her background. I would prefer to keep loyal to the comic.

Bunnie: I agree with the others she needed to be paired more often on the missions, but I also believe we should have seen her moments in Knothole. On the Sea3on comic site, somebody made a guest comic about Bunnie struggling with her robotic self: I would love to see more of that struggle as it can't be easy to fight off the results of the robotocization.

Antoine: He needs growth development. I enjoyed him for comic relief, but I believe everyone was seeing him as being the load of the group. I liked him in the episode "Hooked on Sonic" because it gave him some moments to prove that he was capable of things if he put down his pride and cowardiance. He basically reminds me of the Cowardly lion stereotype who is able to do amazing things, but is consumed by his own fear to be of use to the FF. I would have loved to see an episode where Antoine's pride gets broken hard enough that he recognizes who he really is and his place among the FF. I would also have loved to see him open up more to the other FF like Rotor and Bunnie, but I do enjoy the tension he has with Sonic. Their personalities are entitled to clash!

SonicSatamX93 · August 4, 2016

Here's some questions I have. I'll answer them eventually, along with some of the others but I'd like other opinions on the matter, so here goes.

#1: How would you have written the pilot episode of the series?

#2: Would you or not include characters and elements from other Sonic series if possible? And if yes, who/what and why?

#3: Would you have expanded upon how the Freedom Fighters fought a battle against Robotnik and if yes, how would you do it?

#4: Besides the characters mentioned above, are there any there others whose origins you would have possibly changed?

#5: Would you have included a MXYL style of story as the finale of the series? And I'm not talking about that crap Archie did, I mean, a good one that shows how the characters are getting along once the war is over. Like say, 10-12 years into future rather than 25-30. That's just way too far ahead.

TheRedStranger · August 5, 2016

1. Nothing like the original; it would be like the later work we see in subsequent episodes. A great way to write the pilot would be to probably go back a few years at the rise of Sonic becoming "priority one" on Robotnik's hit-list. The story of Bunnie Rabbo becoming the "Rabbot" would also be worthy of an intro. We could see the horrors of the Freedom Fighter's struggle first hand and it would give us a great introduction to the world of Mobius's main conflict at the time. We could also establish the great writing maximum of Satam that Ben Hurst mentioned in his interview about the series - you must loose something to win; good stories are predicated on this (that's probably why Segasonic never has it. ;p) Applying this in this case, we see Bunnie loose a part of her own humanity to stave off Robotnik's schemes and see early that Sonic alone is not fast enough to stop Robotnik's war-machine. In fact I'd have him screw up quite badly.

2. A) This should be done with meticulous care as to preserve the unique tone and timbre of Satam. Satam should not be thrown into a Procrustean bed to be stretched and severed to fit a fractured series of games or comics that lack any canonical backbone. To do so it to create a deformed, metastatic Frankenstein filled with tumorous concepts that no longer garner the consistency and charm of Satam. The extant characters from any other series should instead be fitted inside its milieu and be bond to it thoroughly. Backstories should be tweaked, aesthetics reconsidered, and I would give them new voice actors. I am personally very passionate about furthering the tone and creative inertia that the second season left us with. I would dare say I would not even introduce Knuckles like Sea3on did into the series ever or in quite some time. I would dedicate much more time instead to Lupe, Dirk, Pollo, Bunnie, Rotor, Tails, and yes even Antoine (especially Antoine; he could actually have a good character-arc). I am not at liberty to say if or when you will see more characters be introduced in EoT from other sources but do note that we will be keeping to this aforementioned conviction of Satam-first. You will know and experience characters like Dirk, "Lucio," and Pollo and experience what potential they hold over someone as vague and one-dimensional as Vanilla the Rabbit or Storm the Albatross.

B) Chaos Emeralds and Super Forms are very vague and undercooked idea. If this mcguffin were a muffin it'd be still doughy and cold inside (and the uncooked egg would give you salmonella). I do think however believe ardently Satam provides the best way to get anything out of the concept seeing that there is untapped lore in the Mandarans and various ancient cultures. I fear though that they could easily take over the story of Satam and keep it stuck repeating plots in episodes that we have already seen like the stories with the Secret Scrolls and the Power Stones. These are not broken, so let's not "fix" them with Chaos Emeralds. Again, I am not liberty to say much but if they will ever be introduced into EoT they'd need a facelift, an actual sense of lore and limitations, and need to be way less integral to the plot compared to the struggle to reclaim Mobius and the individual character's story of finding meaning in life beyond the fight that has defined their whole young lives. We already have ideas on how to do just this if the day ever comes; let's just say its would be a radically different approach than both the games, comics, and Sea3on...

3) There is a history to Satam. There is more potential there than multiple games have ever attempted to produce (which contains mostly only a tenuous attempt in SA2). There is much more beyond Robotnik and Robotropolis...much, much more than the Freedom FIghter's fight at hand. We see a taste of this with Ixsis Naugus and The Void. Factions, lands,histories, and future (and even prequel and interqual) stories could be Robotnik free for a long time and still be interesting. (But again, we'd rather show than tell)

4) All our characters deserve more backstory being revealed and affecting their character arcs. I would avoid just back-washing up exposition-dumps in the stories and keep them relevant to ongoing plots, adding internal conflict and some existential tension to the narrative. For example explaining Antoine's frightfulness and having him face his fears to grow as a character would be must for continuing the Satam story. You can only laugh at his cowardice for so long until he becomes distractedly unlikable. As for changes, I would probably revise Sonic's origins and how he got his powers. It is not yet told in Satam, but I've discussed with the writer of SM @Mike Arcade on how this could be done if one wanted to redo Satam from scratch. We both agree he should have not been born with powers, greatness should be thrusted upon him and not necessarily as young as the age of five. There is a lot more you can do with a character's arc by taking them from a place of disempowerment to sudden empowerment, both the pros and cons such an event would have on someone.

5) For Satam? I dare say it deserves to go that far, and with its potential for lore very well could, and here on this site, with good writing and world-building, it very well can. Eat your heart out Archie, the fans together can do it better. Mobius is our clay to shape, our creative playground in which we can create all sorts of amazing ideas.

Ishapar · August 6, 2016

1. I believe the pilot episode should introduce Sonic and the Freedom Fighter's first conflict with Robotnik. If we are to take the events from "Blast from the Past," then the Freedom Fighters were only 5 when Robotnik overthrew Mobius. The FF would have needed to learn to survive and maintain Knothole before they could ever make an attempt to take on Robotnik, so I believe the pilot episode should have introduce the audience to Mobius, Robotnik, Knothole, and the beginning conflict with Robotnik and Sonic.

2. I agree with RedStranger that Satam should focus on the characters that were already introduced into the show before making an attempt to introduce new ones to the series. Many characters like Lazaar and Griff should have been liable to return, and many of the FF leaders could have had their own stories alongside Lupe. The rest of the main FF should also receive more development, and I wouldn't be offended if we had one episode explain Dulcy's first meeting with the FF. As for new characters, I am all for Knuckles as I believe he was intended to be introduced into the series, and I do loke how Sea3on is portraying him.

3. The battles could have been improved in the series, but I believe the end of Season 2 was trying to step it up. I would love to have seen Sonic being more involved at protecting the FF instead of acting mostly as a decoy, and it would have been neat to see a whole scale battle take place at the end of the season. Of course, add Naugus into the mix...

4. Dulcy does need a backstory to explain her appearance in Season 2. Bunnie also deserves one as she is shown being a cyborg bunny that was affected by the robotocizer. I would love to see all the FF have more of a backstory, but at least explain Dulcy's and Bunnie's.

5. All is fair game! Mobius needs to come back to order: how long it takes is the valid question.

F07E · August 6, 2016

On August 4, 2016 at 2:33 AM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Here's some questions I have. I'll answer them eventually, along with some of the others but I'd like other opinions on the matter, so here goes.

#1: How would you have written the pilot episode of the series?

#2: Would you or not include characters and elements from other Sonic series if possible? And if yes, who/what and why?

#3: Would you have expanded upon how the Freedom Fighters fought a battle against Robotnik and if yes, how would you do it?

#4: Besides the characters mentioned above, are there any there others whose origins you would have possibly changed?

#5: Would you have included a MXYL style of story as the finale of the series? And I'm not talking about that crap Archie did, I mean, a good one that shows how the characters are getting along once the war is over. Like say, 10-12 years into future rather than 25-30. That's just way too far ahead.

For #1, there really isn't much I feel could have been done too differently. The episode introduced the characters well enough, and gave enough background as to allow us, the viewers, to learn enough about the world to be invested, without drowning in a sea of expository nonsense.

As for #2, I liked how sea3on introduced knuckles, and would be 100% down with seeing some of the other characters the series has produced introduced into SatAM so long as it can be done organically. To me this means reworking the backstory's and motivations to fit within the world of SatAM, without making them steal the spotlight away from what has already been established prior.

Now for #3 & #4, I really can't think of anything that wouldn't damage what was already established, I thought it was fine.

Lastly for #5, yes. As either a two part special which is actually one of the characters recounting the final victory that secured the future or for additional mind tricks a single episode which reaveals that the ENTIRE series is revealed to be this, before following that character as they go about a free mobius reminicing about the past.

Mike Arcade · August 7, 2016

Great questions X93, I see you also favor asking multiple questions at once like me. XP

1. The pilot episode of SatAM, while establishing the series, was off in color scheme and tone, it's not considered canon in general because of that, not to mention you also have Blast to the Past being a sort of Origins Episode of SatAM. For SatAM I'd rather have a more fitting pilot in tone with the rest of the series establishing all of our core characters, motives, and goals, like maybe rescuing one of the Freedom Fighters perhaps? There are a lot of ways you can take it, such as it the beginning of Robotnik looking at Sonic as a real threat even spear heading the first 2 seasons.

2. That depends, I wouldn't just put in characters and concepts from the games or the comics for the sake of it otherwise it would lose it's unique SatAM flavor, you gotta keep it's flavor while making sense to the series so characters say the games and comics would end up dramatically different in SatAM, otherwise you get just a huge crossover that mashes together like trying to fit Lego and Mega Blocks together with crazy glue and a hammer, it wouldn't look good and just be a complete mess, I think a lot of people forget that. It all depends on how you want to take the series, just have an idea on what the identity of it is beforehand.

3. Having some more details on how their days can be would be nice, how plans go together and how they can change in the moments notice, but as @TheRedStranger has pointed out there's a whole world out there rather then just a vast, empty wasteland of near extinction despite how bad it looks, but that would just be telling, it's best to imagine in.
But really there are so many stories to tell, who knows how they have played out, and so much background and history to see...

4. Origins? Well other then in Blast to The Past what origins? I mean you never do find out why Sonic is blue, nor where everyone parents are other then Sally's dad, there's a lot of backgrounds that can be filled out. STC and the American Promo Comic derived from the SoA Sonic Bible had a silly origins involving a giant hamster wheel but at least it was a history and origins! It's something that Sega Sonic, Sonic Boom, and every major Sonic Series lacks and that's origins and why characters are multicolored and such, everyone just excepts this as the way things are without putting thought into it, thankfully I'm reassured that I'm not crazy for thinking this way. XP
All in good time X93, all in good time.

5. I would say something, but I'm not able to disclose information due to certain projects in the works here on FSoM, till then please keep checking up on Project EoT and find out!
Otherwise it's hard to imagine with what little we were given in SatAM, till then keep asking those questions and let's keep answering them!

SonicSatamX93 · August 14, 2016

Alright, I'll answer my own questions, along with some others.

1: If I was going to do the pilot, I would make it a 4 parter like Sonic Underground did. While I did not like how it was executed in that mediocre at best show, I do admit it was nice to show Sonic developing as a hero. So, for Part 1, I'd show how Sonic and his friends cope with Robotnik's invasion and trying to survive on their own, especially once Rosie ends up captured and roboticized.

Part 2 would introduce Tails' arrival at the Great Forest and how Sonic would discover his hidden abilities when fending off Swatbots when trying to apprehend them both. Then, Sally would later discover Tails had great power within him after doing some investigating about his background. Part 3 would be about the team's first mission together invading Robotropolis when around the age of 12, and Bunnie not being experienced, ends up getting captured and nearly fully roboticized, barely being saved by Sonic and Sally in time.

And for Part 4? It would about 3 years later where the Freedom Fighters have now upgraded their base and arsenal to be a real threat to Robotnik. And after they put a major dent into his operation during their latest invasion, Robotnik would retaliate by going with a massive invasion of the Great Forest, planning to burn it to the ground, only to be outsmarted yet again thanks to some cleverly hidden Krudzu plants around it by Princess Sally. Driven back once more, Robotnik at the end vows to unleash his secret weapons on them to finish them off once and for all, none other than his duo of Metal and Silver Sonic.

2: Well, anyone's who read my fics knows I would indeed do that. And like Redstranger mentioned, any added characters' backstories would be refined and reshaped to fit the Satam universe. They're not going to be added recklessly. Any non Sonic Satam character added to to the story will have a purpose or won't be included. And the reason why I would is because I believe the Satam universe should be THE MAIN universe of the Sonic canon, not the games. Nothing against good game universes like Sonic Adventure, but I believe even that story could be reshaped to fit into the Satam universe as well.

3: Yes, I would expand upon their battles. For starters, I like the idea of them winning as a team because of their strategies and perseverance. One of my biggest complaints with the show is how Sonic was pretty much did 75% of the heavy lifting. And I get it. He's the main character, but seriously, he was absurdly OP at times. I rather he be the rabbit of the team, meaning he's the main one Robotnik and his army focuses on due to his super speed and abilities, while the others set up ambushes and explosives to lure them into a well organized trap.

Same for Sally as well. Season 2 made her too Mary-Sueish at times. While I understand Sonic is the heart and Sally is the soul of the team, that doesn't mean Bunnie and Antoine, along with Rotor and the others are insignificant. Like I mentioned above, it should be a team effort, not a one man or woman show.

Heck, one of my ideas for them to beat Robotnik during a battle for territory and resources is use a strategy similar from a battle in ancient warfare where they use the wind and a double agent to set up a perfect ambush where they appear to be surrounded, and then unleash the trap, unleashing a massive EMP wave onto Robotnik's troops, frying them, and then setting fire to Robotnik's current base, using the wind's current direction to completely engulf it, forcing Robotnik to flee on foot back to Robotropolis since all of his machines are kaput.

Seriously, I would have loved to have seen more of those kind of battles because that's what war is all about: Outsmarting and out-muscling your opponent to beat them. I get the fact it's a kid's show, but there's no reason why the battles couldn't have been more than just Sonic busting up machines and Sally doing her stuff with Nicole. I get the fact that's part of it, but I want to see different strategies and scenarios to keep it interesting.

4: I would mostly keep them the same, save for a few differences. For starters, I'd want Bunnie to have more of a hatred and sorrow towards her roboticized limbs. While I wouldn't want her to be angst like Shadow, I do believe she shouldn't just be ok with this completely either. I mean, she lost half her body to the roboticizer. That's going to leave some emotional scars.

Heck, now that I think about it, all the Freedom Fighters should carry some emotional baggage about what Robontnik put them through. You know, nothing over the top, but they shouldn't be happy go lucky all the time either. Like I mentioned above, they are at war, and that's not something you just handle lightly. Plus, it'd be good character development too.

One of my ideas for Antoine to expand upon why he's a coward is because he saw firsthand what happened to his father during a mission and it nearly broke him. Even when they gave him his sword to possibly fight with, he could not muster the courage to use it because of that horrible event. His father was a big part of his life and once he was gone, Antoine lost that rock he leaned on for strength during difficult times.

Granted, I do plan on him eventually overcoming it, but not for awhile since I believe it should be in gradual steps like Archie Sonic did.

And last and certainly least, I would try to give an explanation where Dulcy came from. Like say... they rescued her from a Swatbot invasion of Dragon's Keep and they discovered, like Tails, she had great power hidden within her. Seriously, that was just so stupid how she's just there with no explanation in Season 2. I hate it when shows do that because it's incredibly lazy. Would it have killed them to have Season 2's opener have the Freedom Fighters meet her and she joins them in their quest to free Mobius?

5: As the others mentioned, I would have as well. Because hey, who doesn't want to see how our Freedom Fighters are carrying on once the war is over? So, unlike Archie's, I would have done it 10 years into the future rather than 25/30, where they're all in their late 20's and some of them even have kids. I mean, why show them when they're past their prime? That's just dumb.

As for the story, I'm still pondering it over, but for now, I'm possibly considering it be about how a treasure hunt gone wrong by Rouge and Nack where they accidentally frees Mephiles and Iblis from a forbidden chest, causing them to escape and attack Mobotropolis after it's been rebuilt, engulfing it into flames, causing the death of many civilians, including Sally's father. Blaze and Silver soon appear on the scene to drive them back temporarily, but the damage done is nevertheless catastrophic.

Eventually, they have one final showdown in the open fields where Sonic, along with Shadow join them to fight these vile creatures and finally rid Mobius the final evil of the planet.

I admit that story does need some fine tuning, but I think it could be good as a finale to the series since it'd be a great way to introduce Blaze and Silver, as well make Silver relevant by making him the strongest between him, Sonic and Shadow. I am so sick of seeing Silver treated like an incompetent idiot. I'm not saying he shouldn't have some of that to keep him balanced, but seriously, give the guy some dignity instead of always being a punching bag.

TheRedStranger · August 14, 2016

I think the above deserves some thoughtful responses. Does any have any commentary on each other's answers?

I will allow someone else to go first.

F07E · August 15, 2016

18 hours ago, TheRedStranger said:

I think the above deserves some thoughtful responses. Does any have any commentary on each other's answers?

I will allow someone else to go first.

Alright, might as well go first then.

When you stated that storm and vanilla were bland and one note, I initially agreed until it hit me like a sack of bricks how good and utterly tragic vanilla COULD be in SatAM, especially when you examine what is known about her as a character. She's a single mother who coddles her daughter, now add that to the SatAM setting, why would she still act like that? To preserve her daughters innocence in a harsh and unforgiving world, mainly as she's the last thing that truly gives her a reason to keep going. Now add to that her husbands probably dead/roboticized and the world she once knew is nothing more than the memories of days gone by, and her actions are now that of someone broken and stuck desperately clinging onto whatever sense of normality they can attain.

On another note, I like X93's idea of a 4-parter, however I'd save it for an epic series finale rather than an opener. That being said I still like the idea of having some focus brought back to those key events, like the fall, bunnies partial robotization, who found tails and where, and the freedom fighters finally delivering the first blow to Robotnik's empire that sets the tone for the series.

TheRedStranger · August 18, 2016

A response to the first, first.

1. This can work well if you want to go with a chronological approach rather than a relevatory approach like we see in Blast to The Past. Personally if I had the chance to redo Satam from scratch I would not even have Sonic be blue at the start (or Uncle Chuck), let alone have his powers. The building of his powers would mirror up his becoming a hero internally through out a a few episodes like you have sugessted. The idea can still work well with Blast to The Past as well. You can simply have loose ends that are finally unveiled from this new perspective on previously seen events. In fact, this could lead to some major plot twists and strong sense of continuity.

I have already mentioned, I like the idea of showing Bunnie partially Roboticized early on in a pilot-like episode. I would prune the focus onto Sonic and not focus on Tails other than being a massive responsibility as an infant (maybe you can foreshadow some things but I would not go too far). The spotlight should be mainly on Sonic and Sally, and the failure to save Bunnie should be an extension of Sonic's character arc. Even with his new found abilities, he is humbled by the fact that he can't save the day all by himself, and internalizes some guilt over his failure to rescue Bunnie from being maimed like this.

I am not sure about skipping to the Krudzu and a beefy base. I would want to keep the feeling of scarcity and disadvantage on the side of the Freedom Fighters. I would keep the timeline tight and focused mainly on the first year without too much skipping. Perhaps you can make Sonic a bit older than five too, give him more time to miss the world he lost. Perhaps he just turned 12. At the end of part three is when you would see Sonic as he is now (how you do this is up to you). Part four is when he, after nearly loosing Bunnie, relies on Sally more and they foil Robotnik's plans to simply starve out Knothole rather than waste resources he is using to fry much bigger fish (the Coupe was just the Capital; there is still government resistance from the local duchies). Robotnik at first should not care that much about Sonic other than see him as an amusing inconvenience. After defeating a smaller-time antagonist (who will be the immediate focus while Robotnik is the bigger ephemeral boogieman) and having Knothole mistaken as successfully starved out, Robotnik begins his web of intrigue the way he does in Sonic Undergound in dismantling and subverting the now decentralized remaining powers on the continent and perhaps beyond. His ideas are much grander in scope than the Freedom Fighters who are basically a mote of light in his realm of darkness he forgot to squelch. More concerned with intrigue, oilfields, mines, and resources already established around him, Knothole starts out as his blindspot. Defeating this small time villain and faking their starvation has led to a metaphorical burned-out spot, one the fires of the Coupe have already seemingly blazed through, yet everyone remains unburned. With time to bide, and vast wilds shielding them, they prepare for an asymmetrical war.

__________

Mike Arcade · August 21, 2016

Really great post X93, you know how you want things done when it comes to a possible SatAM.

Really like your idea of a 4-parter beginning, sounds like it's really thought out and paced well, though I do think having Metal and Silver Sonic showing up at the very beginning is a bit much, well Silver Sonic maybe as he's usually a precursor to Metal Sonic but I dunno. Having Mecha Sonic or Metal Sonic/Metallix around feels like an event to me, like things just got real and you have one of the biggest threats yet and a possible recurring villain depending how you play him off as. You could always freshen out a Badnik and have that and Silver Sonic for starts, that's just me though. When it comes to other canon stuff like Metal Sonic and the Krudzu I would play it carefully as you could end up introducing too many things from the other canons at once, I'd say play it off one note at a time and see where it goes, not to mention you gotta subvert the expectations of others, even if it makes the readers mad.

I share your favor with SatAM and SoA Canon, after all it's the only one with a consistent story and universe, following in those footsteps without it going out of control and convoluted like Archie Sonic I'd say is a must, it's the best backdrop and basis for any Sonic Canon along with STC.

I agree with how you would want the battles to go, even in SatAM and in many canons it seems very one sided as one or two characters seem to always be the key in winning a skirmish, I understand having your main character and focus character of the episode be important but still, they shouldn't be the be all end all.

And lastly the whole years later sort of thing, I do agree with you on having it be an ending for a Sonic Series, it would make sense. The Time Skip is a tricky subject with a story, I usually see them in a sequel series or after a huge story arc happens, the worst of it though has to be as a possible future or during the series as it's going on, aka as how it happened in Archie Sonic. If we know what happens in the end while we are reading the story, what's the point in reading anything in the normal run of the series when you have a future story that basically tells you the ending of the series? Time Skips have to be handled very carefully, otherwise you can get a huge mess in the end.

Can't wait to see what other responses and stories you post up X93!

SonicSatamX93 · August 22, 2016

On 8/18/2016 at 0:53 PM, TheRedStranger said:

I am not sure about skipping to the Krudzu and a beefy base. I would want to keep the feeling of scarcity and disadvantage on the side of the Freedom Fighters. I would keep the timeline tight and focused mainly on the first year without too much skipping. Perhaps you can make Sonic a bit older than five too, give him more time to miss the world he lost. Perhaps he just turned 12. At the end of part three is when you would see Sonic as he is now (how you do this is up to you). Part four is when he, after nearly loosing Bunnie, relies on Sally more and they foil Robotnik's plans to simply starve out Knothole rather than waste resources he is using to fry much bigger fish (the Coupe was just the Capital; there is still government resistance from the local duchies). Robotnik at first should not care that much about Sonic other than see him as an amusing inconvenience. After defeating a smaller-time antagonist (who will be the immediate focus while Robotnik is the bigger ephemeral boogieman) and having Knothole mistaken as successfully starved out, Robotnik begins his web of intrigue the way he does in Sonic Undergound in dismantling and subverting the now decentralized remaining powers on the continent and perhaps beyond. His ideas are much grander in scope than the Freedom Fighters who are basically a mote of light in his realm of darkness he forgot to squelch. More concerned with intrigue, oilfields, mines, and resources already established around him, Knothole starts out as his blindspot. Defeating this small time villain and faking their starvation has led to a metaphorical burned-out spot, one the fires of the Coupe have already seemingly blazed through, yet everyone remains unburned. With time to bide, and vast wilds shielding them, they prepare for an asymmetrical war.

I assure you I'm not going to have it so Knothole has a military grade base right off the bat in Part 4. That comes much later in the series. Even I know this has to be done gradually to show how they started with very little and eventually becoming the main threat to the Robotnik Empire. However, when they start making constant raids, it's only a matter of time before Robotnik gets fed up with their intrusions and sends out his forces to put a stop to it.

That's why I mentioned them planting Krudzu around the Great Forest. It's the first step to protecting their home. That and them making their own crude explosives to defend themselves. They'll need it when Robotnik finally comes to destroy the Great Forest.

But yes, Robotnik will be drilling for oil, minerals, gems, etc as well on the side. He would be wanting to find the most powerful energy source on Mobius to make any who oppose him a dire mistake.

19 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

Really great post X93, you know how you want things done when it comes to a possible SatAM.

Really like your idea of a 4-parter beginning, sounds like it's really thought out and paced well, though I do think having Metal and Silver Sonic showing up at the very beginning is a bit much, well Silver Sonic maybe as he's usually a precursor to Metal Sonic but I dunno. Having Mecha Sonic or Metal Sonic/Metallix around feels like an event to me, like things just got real and you have one of the biggest threats yet and a possible recurring villain depending how you play him off as. You could always freshen out a Badnik and have that and Silver Sonic for starts, that's just me though. When it comes to other canon stuff like Metal Sonic and the Krudzu I would play it carefully as you could end up introducing too many things from the other canons at once, I'd say play it off one note at a time and see where it goes, not to mention you gotta subvert the expectations of others, even if it makes the readers mad.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.

While you have a point about introducing too many things at once, I assure you each one has a purpose behind it. I'm not putting Krudzu along with Metal and Silver Sonic just to add other elements from other canons.

The Krudzu will play a big role in the first season of being a deterrent when Robotnik tries to use his robotic army to destroy Knothole. Eventually he will render it as a useless defense as time goes on, but it will nonetheless give the Knothole Freedom Fighters something they can rely on until they can find a better method to keep Robotnik away from their secret entrance.

Also, Metal and Silver Sonic will not be just your standard robotic versions of Sonic. Quite the contrary in fact. Both of them will play a significant role in not only being used to further Robotnik's power, but also hold a bombshell of a secret that will make Sonic nearly lose the will to battle them.

I won't spoil it on here for now, I suppose I could give you one hint through a PM if you really want to know.

TheRedStranger · August 22, 2016

4 hours ago, SonicSatamX93 said:

I assure you I'm not going to have it so Knothole has a military grade base right off the bat in Part 4. That comes much later in the series. Even I know this has to be done gradually to show how they started with very little and eventually becoming the main threat to the Robotnik Empire. However, when they start making constant raids, it's only a matter of time before Robotnik gets fed up with their intrusions and sends out his forces to put a stop to it.

That's why I mentioned them planting Krudzu around the Great Forest. It's the first step to protecting their home. That and them making their own crude explosives to defend themselves. They'll need it when Robotnik finally comes to destroy the Great Forest.

But yes, Robotnik will be drilling for oil, minerals, gems, etc as well on the side. He would be wanting to find the most powerful energy source on Mobius to make any who oppose him a dire mistake.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.

While you have a point about introducing too many things at once, I assure you each one has a purpose behind it. I'm not putting Krudzu along with Metal and Silver Sonic just to add other elements from other canons.

The Krudzu will play a big role in the first season of being a deterrent when Robotnik tries to use his robotic army to destroy Knothole. Eventually he will render it as a useless defense as time goes on, but it will nonetheless give the Knothole Freedom Fighters something they can rely on until they can find a better method to keep Robotnik away from their secret entrance.

Also, Metal and Silver Sonic will not be just your standard robotic versions of Sonic. Quite the contrary in fact. Both of them will play a significant role in not only being used to further Robotnik's power, but also hold a bombshell of a secret that will make Sonic nearly lose the will to battle them.

I won't spoil it on here for now, I suppose I could give you one hint through a PM if you really want to know.

Dude, I'd love to hear it.

MJ Knight · August 24, 2016

Only thing I would have changed is give Tails more to do.

I was not a fan of his limited appearances

Wulfsbane · August 24, 2016

15 minutes ago, MJ Knight said:

Only thing I would have changed is give Tails more to do.

I was not a fan of his limited appearances

Give us an example: What would have Tails do in some episodes?

SonicSatamX93 · August 27, 2016

Anyway, just to add another topic of conversation, how would you have handled Sally and Bunnie's transition when it came to their personal attire choices?

As we are all aware, in the Blast to the Past when they were young children, Sally wore a Princess Jasmine style of dress and Bunnie wore nothing at all. And yet in Knothole 10 years later, Sally is wearing nothing but boots and Bunnie is wearing a purple leotard.

Me personally, I would have go it something like this. After Robotnik took over, Sally was so overwhelmed with sorrow and grief, she literally cast aside her royal garments in humility as a symbol of her royal heritage being stripped from her. One could argue she just outgrew them since that's the only attire she could take with her, but Rosie was there for a short while and could possibly make another outfit or even teach her how to make her own clothes. However, I believe Sally chose this for a time because the events mentioned above humbled her to the point she felt unworthy of even looking remotely like a princess.

Now that's not to say I would have done like Satam and have Sally just wear vest and a boots since I think that's a bit too revealing, but I would have it so Sally would gradually wear casual attire to further her character development to show she's not only humble, but wants to be on the same level as her friends and comrades, in-spite of the fact she's still technically royalty.

As for Bunnie? Well, I'm not 100% sure why she was originally not wearing any attire at age 5. Maybe her family was a bunch of naturists? Maybe she just felt more comfortable that way as a young child since quite a few do that at that age? Who can say for sure? But anyway, I think she would most likely would choose to live like that until about 10-12 when she got half roboticized. Maybe Bunnie would have chosen to wear attire before then, but since there is so very little on her character's personality at that age, I'm just going with my own interpretation for now.

So again, I personally would have made it so Bunnie eventually chose to wear that leotard as a way to cover up her own body's roboticized scars. Heck, I'd say she did it to cover up her emotional ones as well. She couldn't bear to see herself half machine,so she covered up everything that could possibly be hidden in order to deal with it.

And with her body starting to develop as well, one could even argue it was a two for one solution. But anyhow... that's just my interpretation. So, I'd like to hear what everyone else's opinion is on this topic.

TheRedStranger · August 27, 2016

6 hours ago, SonicSatamX93 said:

Me personally, I would have go it something like this. After Robotnik took over, Sally was so overwhelmed with sorrow and grief, she literally cast aside her royal garments in humility as a symbol of her royal heritage being stripped from her. One could argue she just outgrew them since that's the only attire she could take with her, but Rosie was there for a short while and could possibly make another outfit or even teach her how to make her own clothes. However, I believe Sally chose this for a time because the events mentioned above humbled her to the point she felt unworthy of even looking remotely like a princess.

I will focus on Sal first and think more deeply about Bunnie whilst giving others a chance to join in.

Let's expand on that thought. I think one other thing to consider is that her garments were "out of style" from the Royal Gaurd, Julian's and the King's uniform which are more eurocentric and slightly Napoleonic. She could have been more spoiled and showy as well, exagerating her unique position (being prideful) or innocently embellishing it with a carefree romanticism (maybe a mixture of both). She probably read books of exotic lands and archetypial damsels that impressed on her a delusional lighthearted perception of her own future. This would create a motif for the clothes, making them a symbol of her internal transition after coupe into a victimized child to a leader of a rebellion. She chooses her minimalist and more utilitarian attire as her beliefs about what it means to be royalty change. She is weighted with responsibility now and the romanticism has frayed and faded alongside the once abandoned flashy garments. Her early story could be drawn out as the actual progression of the stereotypical damsel (Snow White) into a strong willed Heroine (Ellen Ripley). Her shorter hair cut can also be a symbol of this change. Perhaps a could of incidences cause her strip pieces of this veneer off page by page in a story focused on her early years.

MJ Knight · August 29, 2016

On 24/08/2016 at 10:13 PM, Wulfsbane said:

Give us an example: What would have Tails do in some episodes?

Have Tails plan missions, join Sonic on missions just as he did in the Pilot episode heads or Tails.

Just to have him feel more part of the team that would likely see Sally concentrate more on technical details with Nicole and having more faith in Sonic that he could responsibly look after Tails whilst he gained experience

SonicSatamX93 · August 31, 2016

On 8/27/2016 at 0:30 AM, TheRedStranger said:

I will focus on Sal first and think more deeply about Bunnie whilst giving others a chance to join in.

Let's expand on that thought. I think one other thing to consider is that her garments were "out of style" from the Royal Gaurd, Julian's and the King's uniform which are more eurocentric and slightly Napoleonic. She could have been more spoiled and showy as well, exagerating her unique position (being prideful) or innocently embellishing it with a carefree romanticism (maybe a mixture of both). She probably read books of exotic lands and archetypial damsels that impressed on her a delusional lighthearted perception of her own future. This would create a motif for the clothes, making them a symbol of her internal transition after coupe into a victimized child to a leader of a rebellion. She chooses her minimalist and more utilitarian attire as her beliefs about what it means to be royalty change. She is weighted with responsibility now and the romanticism has frayed and faded alongside the once abandoned flashy garments. Her early story could be drawn out as the actual progression of the stereotypical damsel (Snow White) into a strong willed Heroine (Ellen Ripley). Her shorter hair cut can also be a symbol of this change. Perhaps a could of incidences cause her strip pieces of this veneer off page by page in a story focused on her early years.

Hmm... I didn't think of that, but you're right. Sally's dress didn't exactly mesh with the royal attire of her home and more likely was a fantasy of hers wanting to be one of those princesses who finds true love from a noble knight and lives happily for the rest of her days.

Little did she realize, fate had other plans. And in a weird sort of way, her being exiled made her mature and grow up alot faster than she would have had things gone as she had wanted it to. Who knows? Maybe she would have been like Princess Peach in her fantasy world. That... would have not been good for her character the more I think about it.

Only question left I wonder about is how long the transition would have taken from her shedding her royal garments in utmost humility to eventually wearing ones more like a leader of a rebellion against Robotnik. Maybe 6 months? A year or two? Who can say for sure. Something I need to ponder for a bit since I'm planning on writing that as part of the pilot in my Satam fic.

SonicSatamX93 · September 18, 2016

On 8/27/2016 at 0:30 AM, TheRedStranger said:

I will focus on Sal first and think more deeply about Bunnie whilst giving others a chance to join in

Sadly, it doesn't seem like anyone's going to join this discussion, so tell me your thoughts about Bunnie when it came to her attire choices.

I'm curious what you have to say about it.

TheRedStranger · September 19, 2016

@Prince By-Tor Probably will share some thoughts with us.
____

In EoT we plan and have already drafted down a lot with this... I will try to doge spoilers.

Generally, I think Bunnie's was practical to the point it sacrificed a bit of her femininity, much like a solider. She is deeply feminine in her internal nature and seems rather flirty, maternal, and loving when she had any opportunity to be. Much like our deductions with Sally, there is aesthetics to her character design that might just give us a clear picture of her historical character development and psyche.

Specifically, the leotard seemed to be something of a gymnast or a strong man. It is meant probably to support her chest comfortably and to avoid snags or any impediments to her metal limbs. It could also be serving to hide any physical scarring from the Roboticization process. She was barefur before in Blast to The Past, but then again age for certain Mobians arguably seems to bring the cultural requirement for some minimal clothing. So there is that to consider.

The leotard could also have particular medical purposes. It could be supporting her spine with tight internal bracing to compensate for what would be an obvious weight-imbalance that could distort the normative curvature of her vertebraes. This would function the same way people use braces under their clothes to compensate for mild scoliosis in real life.

The tightness around her core could also be more than orthopedic, it could be a necessary countermeasure for injury. Three of Bunnie's limbs are metallic and certainly have no more bone marrow inside of them for a traditional cardiovascular system. This means she does not have as much blood in her body as the average Mobian which makes her, despite her enhanced strength, vulnerable of constitution. Any possible survival mechanisms predicated on cardiovascular functions would be compromised due to her cybernetics and she would be especially vulnerable to exsanguination. The leotard would act as a full compress for her core to prevent any internal bleeding if she was ever badly hurt.

To finally return to the issue of femininity, I can't help but notice she does not have a "mane" like many of the other females and her eventual Archie counterpart. She has a small tress and it shows us she can clearly grow thicker hair stop her head; its not some form of bizzare mane-patterned baldness so to speak. I think, unlike Sally, she cuts it short for a practical and psychological motivation. There is only one small hole to my theory but I think it's worth trying to find a way to fill this hole for an opportunity for deep character development. That is that she does not have a long mane like Sally when she was little. Still, I would assert that she has psychologically resided some of her outward feminity and has begrudgingly abandoned it when she practically became a weapon of war. I think we get to see a hint of a character struggle in Sonic and Sally that is rather intriguing. When fighting the Sally-reploid and discovering its imposture nature beyond its superficial appearance, she says something that is very telling to Sonic, almost flirty:

"Sometimes a metal body comes in handy, but I still have something a robot will never have - a mind and heart of my own."

In Sonic Conversion we see her also become more flirty and excited about her body. "The Bunnie Bod is back." It's excruciating for this to be reversed later in the episode and such things as saying "having a second look at that man" ahen noting a deroboticized Uncle Chuck disappears as her own metallized flesh reappears. There is something there, something deep we can work with as writers. I can't help but think Bunnie, in her darker moments thinks the opposite of the way she felt in the former qoute from Sonic and Sally and she resigns parts her person during such. Could she feel less of a lady and more a weapon of war? I personally think so. And there is a history there and you can really use this idea to say a lot as a writer to explore the female mind, Roboticization, and the psychological impact of war.

Mike Arcade · September 19, 2016

During a re-watch a year or so back it was quite shocking to me to see Bunnie "having a second look at that man (Uncle Chuck)" but there was that one "Snake Joke" she made when reading Tails a bedtime story in an episode of SatAM. Bunnie's representation in SatAM in Season 2 is the biggest misfire of the series along with Rotor, and instead all of their possible screen time was given to Dulcy.

It did not occur to me that her leotard could be used for medical purposes, keeping her together essentially though with the extra weight of her limbs it must have been PAINFUL at first to have them. Bunnie usually appears upbeat throughout SatAM except when regaining her Robotic Limbs or having them fall apart on her, I can't blame her for thinking herself as a War Machine due to that nor rather disregarding her femininity and confidence not during missions, but socially. After all we don't see anyone else in Knothole interact with her outside our main cast...then again you can apply that with everyone. Bunnie is one of my favorite characters in Sonic though isn't greatly represented, which is a shame but hey we'll have some great series here and I can't wait to see how you guys represent Bunnie. Also considering how Bunnie has the shortest hair of any Lady in Sonic, how do you guys feel about her growing her hair out in other series featuring her like in Archie Sonic?

On that note what we should also consider is how our main Freedom Fighters interact with the people of Knothole and other Freedom Fighters in Knothole we don't see such as the bear and horse that got roboticized, I mean how do you think relatively normal people who live in Knothole handle their situation, let alone others who join the fight against Robotnik, I mean I can't imagine how many others in Knothole could be better Freedom Fighters then how Antoine is in SatAM, they literally couldn't bring in anyone else more useful, I mean you look like you had a bird in SatAM as one of the many background characters who cheered whenever Sonic and Sally did something.

Also I can't stress this one out enough, but I must say that the psychological impact of war when it comes to Sonic Stories using the basis of SatAM NEED to tackle this subject matter, as I've never seen that represented in any Sonic Series or in Archie Sonic to any extent. After all they are in a WAR, you can't suger coat that or push that aside it's what they are in and being essentially child soldiers. It's messed up yes but that is the reality of the situation, in SatAM though while it's never directly tackled upon they do know what they are doing all the while growing up in this mess, that doesn't mean that they don't have a sense of humor though which is a human thing to have in times of crisis such as you can see in lighter episodes of SatAM. So to bring this topic back in order along with every other WWYDD I'd like to ask two things.

1. How do you think Civilians and aspring Freedom Fighters react to their living situation and the events around them during SatAM?

2. Despite the story of Robotnik turning Mobians into Robots and taking over the world, do you think that SatAM being considered "Dark" is not a well representation of it?

SonicSatamX93 · September 22, 2016

On 9/18/2016 at 5:35 PM, TheRedStranger said:

@Prince By-Tor Probably will share some thoughts with us.
____

In EoT we plan and have already drafted down a lot with this... I will try to doge spoilers.

Generally, I think Bunnie's was practical to the point it sacrificed a bit of her femininity, much like a solider. She is deeply feminine in her internal nature and seems rather flirty, maternal, and loving when she had any opportunity to be. Much like our deductions with Sally, there is aesthetics to her character design that might just give us a clear picture of her historical character development and psyche.

Specifically, the leotard seemed to be something of a gymnast or a strong man. It is meant probably to support her chest comfortably and to avoid snags or any impediments to her metal limbs. It could also be serving to hide any physical scarring from the Roboticization process. She was barefur before in Blast to The Past, but then again age for certain Mobians arguably seems to bring the cultural requirement for some minimal clothing. So there is that to consider.

The leotard could also have particular medical purposes. It could be supporting her spine with tight internal bracing to compensate for what would be an obvious weight-imbalance that could distort the normative curvature of her vertebraes. This would function the same way people use braces under their clothes to compensate for mild scoliosis in real life.

The tightness around her core could also be more than orthopedic, it could be a necessary countermeasure for injury. Three of Bunnie's limbs are metallic and certainly have no more bone marrow inside of them for a traditional cardiovascular system. This means she does not have as much blood in her body as the average Mobian which makes her, despite her enhanced strength, vulnerable of constitution. Any possible survival mechanisms predicated on cardiovascular functions would be compromised due to her cybernetics and she would be especially vulnerable to exsanguination. The leotard would act as a full compress for her core to prevent any internal bleeding if she was ever badly hurt.

To finally return to the issue of femininity, I can't help but notice she does not have a "mane" like many of the other females and her eventual Archie counterpart. She has a small tress and it shows us she can clearly grow thicker hair stop her head; its not some form of bizzare mane-patterned baldness so to speak. I think, unlike Sally, she cuts it short for a practical and psychological motivation. There is only one small hole to my theory but I think it's worth trying to find a way to fill this hole for an opportunity for deep character development. That is that she does not have a long mane like Sally when she was little. Still, I would assert that she has psychologically resided some of her outward feminity and has begrudgingly abandoned it when she practically became a weapon of war. I think we get to see a hint of a character struggle in Sonic and Sally that is rather intriguing. When fighting the Sally-reploid and discovering its imposture nature beyond its superficial appearance, she says something that is very telling to Sonic, almost flirty:

"Sometimes a metal body comes in handy, but I still have something a robot will never have - a mind and heart of my own."

In Sonic Conversion we see her also become more flirty and excited about her body. "The Bunnie Bod is back." It's excruciating for this to be reversed later in the episode and such things as saying "having a second look at that man" ahen noting a deroboticized Uncle Chuck disappears as her own metallized flesh reappears. There is something there, something deep we can work with as writers. I can't help but think Bunnie, in her darker moments thinks the opposite of the way she felt in the former qoute from Sonic and Sally and she resigns parts her person during such. Could she feel less of a lady and more a weapon of war? I personally think so. And there is a history there and you can really use this idea to say a lot as a writer to explore the female mind, Roboticization, and the psychological impact of war.

On 9/18/2016 at 5:35 PM, TheRedStranger said:

Very interesting analogy, but you know, I really can't disagree about it. Bunnie is figuratively speaking the strong man or strong woman in this case, so her wearing something similar to a circus performer wears when in this role does make some sense. Granted, I would believe it's more to cover up her body's robotic scars and like you said, easing the strain on her body due to her metal parts.

That indeed is a very deep question. Just how much of a physical strain does it put on your body being half roboticized? Then again, this is a fantasy world, so who can say for sure? I've heard it said it's physically impossible to turn living flesh into metal and they are right, so I guess since it's a sci-fi world, a writer has to make some rules about it to make it sorta believable.

Back to Bunnie's femininity, I really do believe she has sacrificed at least some for the sake of her friends, but deep down, I truly am convinced she hates the way she looks and wants to be beautiful like Sally. Heck, I could see her literally smashing a mirror in her bedroom the first time she sees herself like that as Adam Jenson did in Human Revolution. Heck, if anything, I could Bunnie taking it harder because of how it was thrust upon her at such a young age.

That's one thing I truly hated about Archie Sonic's version. When they showed Bunnie's reaction to being half roboticized, she was like, "Ah cool, now I can kick Robotnik's butt even more so!" Yea, I know it was aimed at kids, but c'mon... show a little bit realism about this, guys.

As for her not having a mane, quite honestly, I think she looks better without one. Don't get me wrong. I do think Bunnie looks pretty with one in Archie Sonic, but eh, I don't know, her having short hair just suited her better. Plus, I believe Sally should have the long hair anyway. She definitely looks like a princess with it when introduced in 130. Really wish they never changed that, but meh, 134 happened so... derp. -.-

Back to Bunnie, I guess the only thing left to wonder is would she have eventually wore clothes had she not been half roboticized? Considering how the others didn't really change their attire much other than Sally, my guess would be most likely no. Sure, it's possible she would have become more self aware of her body developing and maybe felt embarrassed about it being exposed, especially with guys like Antoine and Sonic starting to take notice, but eh, Bunnie doesn't strike me as the type who cares that much about her image as long as it doesn't get the way of her feeling beautiful. But that's just me.

On 9/18/2016 at 6:25 PM, Mike Arcade said:

Also I can't stress this one out enough, but I must say that the psychological impact of war when it comes to Sonic Stories using the basis of SatAM NEED to tackle this subject matter, as I've never seen that represented in any Sonic Series or in Archie Sonic to any extent. After all they are in a WAR, you can't suger coat that or push that aside it's what they are in and being essentially child soldiers. It's messed up yes but that is the reality of the situation, in SatAM though while it's never directly tackled upon they do know what they are doing all the while growing up in this mess, that doesn't mean that they don't have a sense of humor though which is a human thing to have in times of crisis such as you can see in lighter episodes of SatAM.

Well said, and that's why I tackle this issue in my fics. I want this war to take its toll on the team because I believe while having each other helps keep them strong, they're still people with emotions, and sometimes, those emotions can get the best of them.

Quote

1. How do you think Civilians and aspring Freedom Fighters react to their living situation and the events around them during SatAM?

2. Despite the story of Robotnik turning Mobians into Robots and taking over the world, do you think that SatAM being considered "Dark" is not a well representation of it?

I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can.

1: If I had to guess, not very well. I mean, it'd be like living a place that you know could be invaded at any time. That feeling will definitely put you on edge. And for the Freedom Fighters in training? I have a feeling most of them are very nervous because of how easy it is to get captured and roboticized. They no doubt feel like they want to help, but know one wrong move and it's all over for them.

2: I don't think it's a bad representation of it, but I will say this: Satam sadly was hampered by way too many kiddy issues, especially in Season 2. I mean, let's be honest, hearing an annoying dragon crashing and then saying stupid dialogue is not exactly fitting. Now don't get me wrong. You do need to have light hearted moments to keep it from becoming too dark and depressing, but they need to have some form relevance. If it's just silliness for the heck of it, you might as well do without.

Oh yes, a bit of an off topic question here, but since it still fits the theme of this thread, have any of ever read a fic series titled Sonic Freedom Fighters by Jarred Speckter? Now the reason I'm asking is mostly if you have, what did you think of his concepts and ideas? I have to admit some were pretty cool.l If you haven't, I could ask him to give me the rundown of it because some of them definitely fit the concept of doing Satam right.

For those who haven't seen this video, I highly recommend you do so. One of the best I've seen about Sonic Satam concerning its concepts.

F07E · September 22, 2016

On August 5, 2016 at 9:26 PM, F07E said:

As for #2, I liked how sea3on introduced knuckles, and would be 100% down with seeing some of the other characters the series has produced introduced into SatAM so long as it can be done organically. To me this means reworking the backstory's and motivations to fit within the world of SatAM, without making them steal the spotlight away from what has already been established prior.

Almost forgot, as a little addendum maybe we should make a thread about how we'd re-introduce characters across the various continuities

TheRedStranger · September 22, 2016

11 hours ago, F07E said:

Almost forgot, as a little addendum maybe we should make a thread about how we'd re-introduce characters across the various continuities

Or simply a Character Revision/Recon thread more specifically focused on character arcs and design?

----

Lot of golden stuff here guys. I will cast my thoughts in as well. Soon. Here's to an early weekend!

Mike Arcade · October 16, 2016

Bringing this topic back again! So guys I gotta ask this regarding one of my favorite episodes of SatAM, that being about Lazaar....

What would you do with Lazaar, His Guardian, and His Computer?

I mean it's not really brought up among other Sonic fans and I gotta wonder why as Lazaar's Computer is one of the coolest things in SatAM.

TheRedStranger · October 16, 2016

1. How do you think Civilians and aspiring Freedom Fighters react to their living situation and the events around them during SatAM?

This is an incredibly broad question and deserves some concept-mining. There are years of perspective here from the start of the Coupe all the way to watching Sonic's heroism during Doomsday. It should probably be broken down into several more smaller questions that need to be addressed. Let's start out with the initial impact of being a refuge from the new Robotnik Dynasty. What would it be like to conglomerate in Knothole and other Refugee zones after the Coupe? I would like to invite or local Organizational Psychologist to perhaps give us some input on this. He can fact check me. @Prince By-Tor

My Answer: First there would be severe culture shock and societal tension at first. People would have to be herded and kept in place, provisions would have to be acquired, and populations would need to be secured and most likely hidden from Robotnik. The temptation to leave to find a missing loved one or simple cowardice could get the better of many. Many would want to flee large groups to not be noticed or out disagreement. If we have adult civilians there could be riots as many would want to break free of refugee zones for any number of reason, children like those in Knothole would be more impressionable to authority and generally easier to handle. Though. of course, one could easily simply break off from the group without much notice (a plot idea for all you writers out there). If one person could be tracked and traced back to a refugee area, then Robotnik's troops could wipe them out or simply siege them into starvation.

Even if martial-law could calm the initial panic, Mobians with many potential differences in physiology, psychology, needs, and cultures could find themselves at odds. Even if many were from Mobitropolis there would be a naturally induced segregation such multiculturalism idealized in the show more realistically produces. To quote Code Talker from MGSV, Mobitropolis would be "less of a melting pot and more of a salad bowl." According to economist and political philosopher Fredrick Hayek we create spontaneous orders with which we are most attuned despite any centralized rule of government and this proves true at the High-school lunch table to the halls of congress. Even the most totalitarian government (until Robotnik of course) cannot force this out of human (or Mobian) nature, let alone one seemingly naive but moral squirrel king. Go to any modern city and you will find enclaves of unique cultures even if they are called mostly "white" (rather prejudicial and clumsy mind you). Cities in North America alone are filled with layers of Irish, Italian, English, Slavic, Jewish, and French cultural hotzones, let alone more iconic disparate places like a local "China-town." Having your social circles you communed with scrambled and forcibly reformed with half your family robotcized would be the ultimate sociological challenge and test of Mobotropolis's cosmopolitan aspirations. To get your "herd" back you essentially have to forsake a herd mentality and recreate a more intimate culture with much less modern amenities that provides for the need of both herbivore and carnivore alike. Avian, reptilian, and mammalian needs would all have to be met and places like Knothole could not even have plumbing, let alone power at the start. There would also be the issue of producing crops, hunting and gathering, finding medicine, dealing with skill shortages, and developing more generalist talents that pre-industrial cultures demand over contemporary day specialist service-economies. Ironically the people less specialized would be the most useful, a doctorate of Hedgehog-literature or a politician would be immediately be less useful at generating resources and results than a farm hand who has also spent some years dabbling as a vet or mechanic. The rabbit house-wife who knows how to can her own peaches she grew in her garden would be more vital than a lawyer or a celebrity pop-star. People's priorities would need to radically change or they would simply be chewed to pieces by reality, starving, dying, or worse.... In this new game Robotnik is forcing them all to play there would be no difference of fate for the rich or poor, herbivore or carnivore, there would only be winners and losers, and the loosers...

...they get Roboticized!

2. Despite the story of Robotnik turning Mobians into Robots and taking over the world, do you think that SatAM being considered "Dark" is not a well representation of it?

I think the term is limiting. I would agree Satam has some dark elements but I would prefer the milieu of Satam to be described as "organic" or "dynamic." Art imitates life and life is not always dark nor is it always sunny. It is a constant ebb and flow of emotional tides. To quote The Preacher:

"There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven—

A time to give birth and a time to die;
A time to plant and a time to uproot what is planted.

A time to kill and a time to heal;
A time to tear down and a time to build up.

A time to weep and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn and a time to dance.

A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones;
A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing.

A time to search and a time to give up as lost;
A time to keep and a time to throw away.

A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;
A time to be silent and a time to speak.

A time to love and a time to hate;
A time for war and a time for peace." Ecclesiastes 3:1-9.

What makes Satam a good cartoon is the same thing Secret of Nhim good. Nhim was filled with cute and vibrant characters but also had a deep lore with some tenebrous twists and severe stakes (a mother was fighting for the life of her child). Both also dealt with the gambit of the human experience and spoke about the consequences of modernization with morality, of science without soul. In short, they were thematically impactful, the "darkness" had impressionable meaning. It's shadows had silver-linings of morals and hopes. Of course there was light-hearted moments in Satam (and some were more forced than others) but I would much prefer moments of mirth than a contrived grittiness. The greatest pitfall you can dive into as a writer is Darkness Induced Apathy. A conflict with no hope to win, lacking any meaningful gain for the audience and/or characters ultimately equivalent to some bubble-gum sue breezing through a problem via some contrived deus ex machina (except this one makes you more depressed, which arguably makes it worse). Satam did not to meet some quota of obsequious "adult" material to make a story good, neither to do we have to as we continue it in our own ways. Just like Satam, you do not need foul language (as a writer such ignorant, overused language can actually dilute your prose). You do not need gore (ironically for horror you are better off with it: the audience is always better at scaring itself by filling out the gruesome details personally). You do not need sexual/romantic themes. You do not need any pandering, demagogic quota of diversely angsty characters. You definitely do not need overtures of nihilistic brooding. And, especially, you do not have to white-wash away anything that could be perceived as "kiddie-like" or "clean" out your work. What that will do is simply make your work resemble a giant self-loathing apology for loving something you have every right to love. The "Dark-fic" is dead; let it stay buried with contrived broody stinkers like Batman vs Superman and Shadow The Hedgehog. Instead, be dynamic and organic. No mere black and white, take every shade of color you see, every experience and emotion you can muster and mix them on your own blank canvas as you see fit. Don't go merely "dark," just be honest to the story you are telling, explore its implications and consequences with curiosity and zeal. Like in the case with Satam, if you create a well rounded experience; people will flock to it.

3. What would you do with Lazaar, His Guardian, and His Computer?

I am not at liberty to divulge much of my personal thoughts on this because of EoT, but I think we all need to first consider the mechanics of his "techno-magic" and his back-story. This is from a another layer of time from Mobius, one where we see some sparse (high-tech?) machines like a stasis-chamber and an apparent automaton that can shoot energy beams out of his eyes peppered with some medieval and archaic technologies like those clockwork death-traps. How much of this is arcane and how much of this future-tech? Our answer will have implications for this history of Mobius, especially its metaphysics, history, and technological development. Another point to consider is, what made Lazar so "evil?" And why did he need to make the Crystal-computer of spells in the first place?

SonicSatamX93 · November 6, 2016

On 10/15/2016 at 7:29 PM, Mike Arcade said:

Bringing this topic back again! So guys I gotta ask this regarding one of my favorite episodes of SatAM, that being about Lazaar....

What would you do with Lazaar, His Guardian, and His Computer?

I mean it's not really brought up among other Sonic fans and I gotta wonder why as Lazaar's Computer is one of the coolest things in SatAM.

I'm probably not among the majority when it comes to this question, but nevertheless, I personally would pretty much scrap the whole Lazaar concept.

Don't get me wrong. I did like the idea of Sonic being forced to save the day without his speed, but what relevance did this all have later on? Hardly anything. It was never brought up again, nor even played any major part of the war with the Freedom Fighters or Robotnik. At least with Naugus, he was someone who had connections to Julian when introduced. That and he was even going to work with Snively after Robotnik was overthrown.

Lazaar as a whole was an interesting concept, but when it all comes down to it, it amounted to nothing more than a one off. Plus, let's think about the one major problem with this whole concept: Plot convenience. Remember when Robotnik wanted to summon Sonic to capture him once he had Lazaar's device, but couldn't due to "being out of range"? Well, it was never explained at all what its range was, nor its limitations either. So, the writers not wanting to make it too easy for Robotnik to win, ended up him getting Sally instead so Sonic would have to rescue her and Bunnie without his super speed.

Even if it was explained it had a range of say... 1 mile, the writer again could just make it so Sonic is 1.1 miles away in order to not get caught. That and Sonic easily snapped Sally and Bunnie out of their mind control, which proves my point again its too easy to write this story to the convenience of the author.

The episode where Sonic had to walk to Robotropolis due to Julian having a new radar system did this whole conflict much better. It made Sonic have to use his mind rather than his abilities to fight back, something this series desperately needed more of to show he's not just some hotshot with little intelligence as Season 2 sadly gave us at times.

Anyway, seeing this thread not active for awhile, I'll try to get it going again with a few more questions

1: Besides Rosie, who would you have there training Sonic and his friends at age 5 to get ready to defend their home, even eventually invade Robottroplis and how?

2: Would you include a human/overland remnant somewhere on Mobius during Robotnik's rule, and if so, what role would you have them play?

If no one answers these questions within a week, I'll give my own answers then.

F07E · November 11, 2016

On 11/5/2016 at 8:04 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

1: Besides Rosie, who would you have there training Sonic and his friends at age 5 to get ready to defend their home, even eventually invade Robottroplis and how?

2: Would you include a human/overland remnant somewhere on Mobius during Robotnik's rule, and if so, what role would you have them play?

If no one answers these questions within a week, I'll give my own answers then.

well thanks to a misshap with the internet, my old post was deleted. so thusly I will have to post a new one with half the charm:

1. Cat, the often times ignored and otherwise forgotten somwhat older/elderly redshirt from the first episode. its never really stated who he was; a former servent to the crown, some old guy they just decided to bring with them, etc. I personally feel that he was probably the first person to ever make scavenging runs for knothole (farming and basic first aid only goes so far) and more than likely was probably the one who brought tails back to knothole (and perhaps how he found him is why he was adamant on pulling a heroic sacrifice).

2. I'd treat humans the same way as the ancient babylonians from riders and the dragons from avalice (as I hated the whole 'mobius is planet of the apes' shtick) in that they originated as ancient travellers whom came from the stars, slightly altered mobian history, and were practically non-existent by the time of the coup. though I would have a large group of them in cryo stasis on a space station not too dissimilar to the space colony arc from SA2 orbiting the planet/the same sun.

SonicSatamX93 · November 21, 2016

Anyway, I guess I might as well answer my own questions.

1: Probably going against the majority on this, but honestly, I would not have Cat in the series. Let's be honest, his impact was how should I put it...? Very underwhelming. Like with Lazaar, we knew very little about him, what role he served as part of the Freedom Fighters and was quickly roboticized and forgotten after the episode.

Sure, it's possible he could be developed into a good character, but I have one more issue with him: His name. Seriously, they just call him Cat? That's like calling Antoine Coytote or Sally Squirrel. He unfortunately feels like a character that should not have been apart of the series at all.

So, instead, I think some of the more obscure Sonic Underground characters would fit better. Don't get me wrong, they seriously were not well developed either, but at least some of them had an actual name and a role. That's one thing I can give Sonic Underground. It felt like some of its concepts and characters could have easily be integrated into Satam.

Anyway, the characters I'd have along with Rosie is

#1: A character named Gandar, http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Gandar the main one who trained Sonic and his siblings after they were on their own.Sure, his training was not exactly what I would call 5 stars, but at least the concept behind it was good. So, I could easily see him be someone who gave Sonic and his comrades their training to prepare for a possible invasion of their home.

#2: A solider named Argus. http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Argus_(Sonic_Underground) In Sonic Underground, he was Queen Aleena's captain of the Royal Guard, so I figured, why not make him King Max's and have him be one who instructed him to look after Sally and her friends had anything happen to him.

#3: Renee http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Renée Now, I admit I'm using alot of creative liberties with this one here, but seeing her image on wiki, she just looks the tech type, someone who would keep Knothole running when it came to technology. Plus, someone had to teach Rotor how to build explosives as well. Might as well be her.

2: If anyone's seen my synopsis on DA, then they know the answer is yes. Personally, I think this was one thing Satam seriously should have had in their series. Why make Robotnik and Snively the only overlanders on Mobius? I think the idea of him letting one big city with his kind live for a heavy price is a great idea. Plus,with G.U.N known for some cool weapons and machines, Robotnik might as well use it to his advantage to make Robotropolis the most technologically advanced fortress possible.

As for what role they'll have, mostly a neutral one, but will ally towards the Freedom Fighters from time to time due to their hatred of Robotnik. However, they won't hesitate to get in the way of the heroes conquest of defeating Robotnik if it means furthering their power on Mobius.

SonicSatamX93 · December 6, 2016

Well, might as well try to get this thread going again with another question.

Do you think the Power Ring radar should have been brought back for later episodes due to how effective it was?

What Would You Do Differently?

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