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What Would You Do Differently?


TheRedStranger
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If I am not mistaken a power ring  was required for the machine in Hooked on Sonics. Since Sonic can control the distinct energies of the Power Stone and the rings, even so far to have a telekinetic bond (See the episode Gameguy) you would think this would end up being a two way street. Sonic could perhaps sense where you are and even manipulate the matter. If Robotnik got a hold of another ring, he would certainly try something with it, but ultimately it would most likely backfire into a disadvantage. Robotnik's trump card is a Trojan Horse. What the FF shoidlnfear the most though is Robotnik finding a way to find a way to detect this peculiar energy...that would help him find coordinates to the Ring-Lake, which is in Knothole. 0.0

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/12/2016 at 11:43 AM, TheRedStranger said:

If I am not mistaken a power ring  was required for the machine in Hooked on Sonics. Since Sonic can control the distinct energies of the Power Stone and the rings, even so far to have a telekinetic bond (See the episode Gameguy) you would think this would end up being a two way street. Sonic could perhaps sense where you are and even manipulate the matter. If Robotnik got a hold of another ring, he would certainly try something with it, but ultimately it would most likely backfire into a disadvantage. Robotnik's trump card is a Trojan Horse. What the FF shoidlnfear the most though is Robotnik finding a way to find a way to detect this peculiar energy...that would help him find coordinates to the Ring-Lake, which is in Knothole. 0.0

Good point. Ironically enough, I have no answer for how the Power Rings are not able to be traced. It does sound like Robotnik could make a machine to sense its energy once he gets one to analyze. Maybe it's something so complex he cannot do so? *shrugs*


Well, anyway, I'll try to get the ball rolling with a few questions

1: How would you expand upon Robotropolis as Robotnik's main HQ? You know, like his factories, roboticizers, prisons, etc.

2: How do you think places like Angel Island and Dragon's Keep would remain intact considering Robotnik's massive robotic army?

Also, this is an off topic question, but is there a thread on here to discuss what you love to see in a Satam game if possible? Yes, I doubt one will ever be made due to SEGA's massive incompetence, but I'm just saying hypothetically if it could be made, how would you like it to be made?

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Well, anyway, I'll try to get the ball rolling with a few questions

1: How would you expand upon Robotropolis as Robotnik's main HQ? You know, like his factories, roboticizers, prisons, etc.

There's so much you could do there, a lot of it would be delving into Robotnik's psyche. He's got a big ego, i.e. he'd make his realm into his own image, or rather further so. You see, the only person who has an ego similar in size to Sonic is Robotnik and thus, other than the fact that Sonic is a Freedom Fighter and Robotnik is a despot, they constantly butt heads.

 

2: How do you think places like Angel Island and Dragon's Keep would remain intact considering Robotnik's massive robotic army?

As for the Floating Island, it's very hard to find by any means and Dulcy ran into it by accident; it seems to have an innate stealth ability, which would also work against Robotnik. Now, as for Dragon's Keep, we saw in Harmonic Sonic how Robotnik was launching a spy satellite and the FF were scared that he'd use it to find Knothole, so, they destroyed it. From this I can surmise that Robotnik's sensors are limited and only when his bots, spy orbs, swatbots and stealth bots, are present can he see things.

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2 hours ago, Prince By-Tor said:

1: How would you expand upon Robotropolis as Robotnik's main HQ? You know, like his factories, roboticizers, prisons, etc.

There's so much you could do there, a lot of it would be delving into Robotnik's psyche. He's got a big ego, i.e. he'd make his realm into his own image, or rather further so. You see, the only person who has an ego similar in size to Sonic is Robotnik and thus, other than the fact that Sonic is a Freedom Fighter and Robotnik is a despot, they constantly butt heads.

In insania veritas. The time Robotnik was beginning to break, when his Id was raw and exposed like a chaffed nerve in the second half of Season two, would have given us a very different Robotropolis. Much like the uncharacteristicly macabre inner architecture of Doomsday and his ego-themed defenses (organic looking claws and skulls in the walls and the screeching sentinel busts of his head that swarmed Sonic), Robotropolis would at least be tinged by this dark compulsiveness if given the time for construction. Perhaps such gothic and self-grandizing theming would be seen as a consequence of the change of timeline, as Robotnik would surely be more paranoid of Sonic due to his temporal interloping in Blast to The Past and thus more unstable and less composed in his  megalomania. 

No matter what we are going to see massive amounts of production and development. Robotropolis is obviously an industry power house yet to answer this question about edificice we must consider purposes. Why does Robotnik need such a vast industrialized city? Why does he need to harvest and process  resources when most of his populace does not even eat, sleep, excrete, or have any forms of recreation on top of all that? Also if he has taken almost all of the planet would he need much mass-production, especially for his wareffort? First we must consider Robotnik's significant remaining obstacles to his goals of planetary domination, then the level of maintaince to his roboticized citizenry, and finally his more abstract intellectual, philosophical, and long term ambitions beyond all this. 

I personally believe that Robotnik has planetary and perhaps even extraterrestrial goals for his nascent mechanized nation, further research ambitions, selfish luxuries he wishes to acquire and produce. Terraforming pollutants seems to enrich his well being like the scene in BTP with the Destoryer. Perhaps mechanized monuments to his aforementioned ego, a factory could be redundant yet something akin to a temple nevertheless in his twisted mechanized mine. Gears and gyros are his cross and steeple, something foreign to the mind of a non-believer that never partakes in Robotnik's sabbath of smog, steel, and perpetual industry. Mainly I suspect that Robian life and the maintenance of his war-machine are not necessarily as sustainable as organic citizenry and troopers, yet he believes they are the next stage in ecological and sentient "evolution" so to speak. His worldview of pure industrialization and mechanization is as radical as it is rapidly unsustainable. It's a philosophy of constant assimilation  of the natural into his creation. There is more infrastructure and labor than ever, both needed and redundant in hopes to achieve some philosophical critical mass  to change the very fabric of reality to an ephemeral new industrialized state. This however is not sustainable in the long-term (nor probably ever will be - even with Sonic gone the planet would just perhaps die and even Roboticized life with it). We hints of see this in an episode where he must desperately expand his rapidly depleting oil-reserves in which he is obviously desperate need replenish, so much so that he engages in conflict and places considerable effor into devising snake-like drill machines in order to obtain  what oil he can.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 1/10/2017 at 10:09 PM, Prince By-Tor said:

1: How would you expand upon Robotropolis as Robotnik's main HQ? You know, like his factories, roboticizers, prisons, etc.

There's so much you could do there, a lot of it would be delving into Robotnik's psyche. He's got a big ego, i.e. he'd make his realm into his own image, or rather further so. You see, the only person who has an ego similar in size to Sonic is Robotnik and thus, other than the fact that Sonic is a Freedom Fighter and Robotnik is a despot, they constantly butt heads.

That I can definitely see happening. Robotnik would definitely want to make his city as a tribute of his greatness. Although, I ironically I can see it more as his lust for power and even possibly paranoia of someone getting stronger than him, so he builds the biggest and state of the art city possible to win through brute strength if someone comes along who can out think him or has great magic abilities. 
 

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2: How do you think places like Angel Island and Dragon's Keep would remain intact considering Robotnik's massive robotic army?

As for the Floating Island, it's very hard to find by any means and Dulcy ran into it by accident; it seems to have an innate stealth ability, which would also work against Robotnik. Now, as for Dragon's Keep, we saw in Harmonic Sonic how Robotnik was launching a spy satellite and the FF were scared that he'd use it to find Knothole, so, they destroyed it. From this I can surmise that Robotnik's sensors are limited and only when his bots, spy orbs, swatbots and stealth bots, are present can he see things.

 

That is a very good point. It sounds like Robotnik would not be aware of every place on Mobius, which is why he would eventually make spy orbs like we see in later episodes to find every nook and cranny of Mobius in order to conquer it.

On 1/11/2017 at 1:06 AM, TheRedStranger said:

In insania veritas. The time Robotnik was beginning to break, when his Id was raw and exposed like a chaffed nerve in the second half of Season two, would have given us a very different Robotropolis. Much like the uncharacteristicly macabre inner architecture of Doomsday and his ego-themed defenses (organic looking claws and skulls in the walls and the screeching sentinel busts of his head that swarmed Sonic), Robotropolis would at least be tinged by this dark compulsiveness if given the time for construction. Perhaps such gothic and self-grandizing theming would be seen as a consequence of the change of timeline, as Robotnik would surely be more paranoid of Sonic due to his temporal interloping in Blast to The Past and thus more unstable and less composed in his  megalomania. 

No matter what we are going to see massive amounts of production and development. Robotropolis is obviously an industry power house yet to answer this question about edificice we must consider purposes. Why does Robotnik need such a vast industrialized city? Why does he need to harvest and process  resources when most of his populace does not even eat, sleep, excrete, or have any forms of recreation on top of all that? Also if he has taken almost all of the planet would he need much mass-production, especially for his wareffort? First we must consider Robotnik's significant remaining obstacles to his goals of planetary domination, then the level of maintaince to his roboticized citizenry, and finally his more abstract intellectual, philosophical, and long term ambitions beyond all this. 

I personally believe that Robotnik has planetary and perhaps even extraterrestrial goals for his nascent mechanized nation, further research ambitions, selfish luxuries he wishes to acquire and produce. Terraforming pollutants seems to enrich his well being like the scene in BTP with the Destoryer. Perhaps mechanized monuments to his aforementioned ego, a factory could be redundant yet something akin to a temple nevertheless in his twisted mechanized mine. Gears and gyros are his cross and steeple, something foreign to the mind of a non-believer that never partakes in Robotnik's sabbath of smog, steel, and perpetual industry. Mainly I suspect that Robian life and the maintenance of his war-machine are not necessarily as sustainable as organic citizenry and troopers, yet he believes they are the next stage in ecological and sentient "evolution" so to speak. His worldview of pure industrialization and mechanization is as radical as it is rapidly unsustainable. It's a philosophy of constant assimilation  of the natural into his creation. There is more infrastructure and labor than ever, both needed and redundant in hopes to achieve some philosophical critical mass  to change the very fabric of reality to an ephemeral new industrialized state. This however is not sustainable in the long-term (nor probably ever will be - even with Sonic gone the planet would just perhaps die and even Roboticized life with it). We hints of see this in an episode where he must desperately expand his rapidly depleting oil-reserves in which he is obviously desperate need replenish, so much so that he engages in conflict and places considerable effor into devising snake-like drill machines in order to obtain  what oil he can.

Very interesting theory. The part of about Robotnik's Empire when it comes to failing to sustain its energy sources does make sense. Which is probably why he was trying to dig for that massive crystal in the ground in Ultra Sonic. He was trying to possibly find another source of energy to keep his pollutant happy ways going without it causing serious strain on it.

As for having goals beyond the planet Mobius, it's possible. I mean, this is Robotnik we're talking about. His lust for power is so massive, I could see him becoming bored of just ruling Mobius and want to rule other planets like Freeza did in Dragon Ball Z to stroke his own ego. Kinda of a shame the Sonic universe is limited on that with only the Xorda, Seedrians and Metarex. That probably would have been an epic adventure of Sonic and the Freedom Fighters going to another planet to fight off Robotnik from trying to conquer their planet.

Honestly, I think the biggest reason Robotnik is doing all of this on top of being a power hungry dictator is his fear of Naugus. As we saw when Naugus was introduced, Robotnik was completely paralyzed with fear. I think he knew deep down he would one day escape from the Void and give him what for and I believe that made him panic to the point he's now searching for any power source possible to deal with him when that time comes in order to fend him off.

I admit it's not a perfect theory, but hey, it makes alot of sense if you think about it. Robotnik knows Naugus is more powerful than him and had to resort to deception to get him off his back.

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On 2/2/2017 at 9:21 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

As we saw when Naugus was introduced, Robotnik was completely paralyzed with fear. I think he knew deep down he would one day escape from the Void and give him what for and I believe that made him panic to the point he's now searching for any power source possible to deal with him when that time comes in order to fend him off.

I admit it's not a perfect theory, but hey, it makes alot of sense if you think about it. Robotnik knows Naugus is more powerful than him and had to resort to deception to get him off his back.

It's not invalid. In fact I think it is mutually inclusive with my own hypotheses. Naugus is a major obstacle both ideologically and existentially to Robotnik. The two contrast like a philosophical death match between  Rasputin and Stalin. One represents the post-modern resurgence of the premodern, the threat to the puerile and cozy modern notion that we can figure everything out with just our senses and that there is nothing beyond the realm of improvement that cannot be controlled by our industrious hands and empirical minds. Perhaps very Socially Darwinian (remember his "winners & losers speech"), even life to Robotnik is not truly sacred, its something that can be tinkered on just like any machine.  People can be "upgraded" and "improved." The apex being in his own mind, surrounded by mere "rodents," Robotnik finds self-worth in believing he is the first ever force of willful evolution, of artificial selection of the sentient.  Naugus however is the abstract, the darkness surrounding that small bubble of light that is Robotnik's Dialectical-Materialist aspirations. As Robotnik wishes to expand his power and be the driving force of this progressing dialectic, he dreads breeching passed the known material reality of his limited senses into the realm of the metaphysical, where demons like the chaotic Sonic and scheming Naugus await, not bound to his modernist preconceptions of what is and what should be. Ironically, deep down, I think Robotnik, despite his constant attempts at innovation (yet stealing ideas from the likes of Uncle Chuck and his Roboticizor) fears that all he is passing object of reasoning obsolescence in a maelstrom of enthropic chaos. What he builds will some day fade into the dark and dust. Perhaps in Doomsday, he is merely projecting back what that abyss is staring back at him defiantly as his nerves slip, and he begins to doubt the validity of his modernist worldview. Sonic and Naugus are not just enemies to his power but his reasons for even keeping power, his ego and more importantly his ideals.

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On 2/4/2017 at 2:38 AM, TheRedStranger said:

It's not invalid. In fact I think it is mutually inclusive with my own hypotheses. Naugus is a major obstacle both ideologically and existentially to Robotnik. The two contrast like a philosophical death match between  Rasputin and Stalin. One represents the post-modern resurgence of the premodern, the threat to the puerile and cozy modern notion that we can figure everything out with just our senses and that there is nothing beyond the realm of improvement that cannot be controlled by our industrious hands and empirical minds. Perhaps very Socially Darwinian (remember his "winners & losers speech"), even life to Robotnik is not truly sacred, its something that can be tinkered on just like any machine.  People can be "upgraded" and "improved." The apex being in his own mind, surrounded by mere "rodents," Robotnik finds self-worth in believing he is the first ever force of willful evolution, of artificial selection of the sentient.  Naugus however is the abstract, the darkness surrounding that small bubble of light that is Robotnik's Dialectical-Materialist aspirations. As Robotnik wishes to expand his power and be the driving force of this progressing dialectic, he dreads breeching passed the known material reality of his limited senses into the realm of the metaphysical, where demons like the chaotic Sonic and scheming Naugus await, not bound to his modernist preconceptions of what is and what should be. Ironically, deep down, I think Robotnik, despite his constant attempts at innovation (yet stealing ideas from the likes of Uncle Chuck and his Roboticizor) fears that all he is passing object of reasoning obsolescence in a maelstrom of enthropic chaos. What he builds will some day fade into the dark and dust. Perhaps in Doomsday, he is merely projecting back what that abyss is staring back at him defiantly as his nerves slip, and he begins to doubt the validity of his modernist worldview. Sonic and Naugus are not just enemies to his power but his reasons for even keeping power, his ego and more importantly his ideals.

Interesting theory. 

You know, the more I think about it, the more I see Robotnik making the Doomsday Project as an extension of his madness due to his fear and failures at the hands of the Freedom Fighters and Naugus coming ever closer to escaping the Void. So, he made this as a way to basically  as a last resort to tip the scales back in his favor.

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I see Robotnik loosing more of his humanity by the end of the season.  We got to witness his arm being robotocised, and now we see him going mad in wanting to destroy all of Mobius with his robots.  He used to just want to use up Mobias' resources, but now he is dead set at destroying it.  Yep, I'd say he is going mad.  Especailly when we get to hear his hate speech at the end.

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  • 3 months later...

Well, seeing this thread really dead as of late, I figured I'd ask a few questions I've been pondering about for my fic to see if I can get answers and opinions about it.

#1: Do you believe Sonic and Tails having a real personal fight over something or someone like that one issue in Archie Sonic would make for a good episode if done right?

#2: If G.U.N was apart of the series, do you see them and the Freedom Fighters having their own personal conflict where they would fight each other instead of working together against Robotnik?

#3: How much detail do you think love triangles should go into compared to the actual war in order to make it interesting, but not too cliched and teen drama-ish?

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14 hours ago, SonicSatamX93 said:

Well, seeing this thread really dead as of late, I figured I'd ask a few questions I've been pondering about for my fic to see if I can get answers and opinions about it.

#1: Do you believe Sonic and Tails having a real personal fight over something or someone like that one issue in Archie Sonic would make for a good episode if done right?

#2: If G.U.N was apart of the series, do you see them and the Freedom Fighters having their own personal conflict where they would fight each other instead of working together against Robotnik?

#3: How much detail do you think love triangles should go into compared to the actual war in order to not make it interesting, but not too cliched and teen drama-ish?

1: Nope. I get that Sonic and Tails are bros and while conflict is certainly not a problem - Tails should NOT be Sonic's walking toolbox as he is in Lost World - every attempt to try and get the two to fight have not worked. Be it continuously trying to tease a Sonic and Tails fight when we KNOW they don't have the guts to actually do it (Colours, Lost World) or just doing it really, REALLY poorly (Boom). Oddly enough, Boom actually has the best relationship between the two - they're not completely buddy-buddy, they argue and all, but they're not bitter and resentful either. They feel like...friends.

2: Depends. G.U.N is portrayed very...schizo-like throughout the entire franchise. First they're sleezy, corrupt and evil, next they're paragons of protection. I guess it just depends on which version is shown off.

3: Simple. Wait until the war is over. THEN put it at the forefront. You've got bigger problems in  war than merely being peeved about someone else hitting on "your" girl.

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On 5/24/2017 at 5:34 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Well, seeing this thread really dead as of late, I figured I'd ask a few questions I've been pondering about for my fic to see if I can get answers and opinions about it.

#1: Do you believe Sonic and Tails having a real personal fight over something or someone like that one issue in Archie Sonic would make for a good episode if done right?

#2: If G.U.N was apart of the series, do you see them and the Freedom Fighters having their own personal conflict where they would fight each other instead of working together against Robotnik?

#3: How much detail do you think love triangles should go into compared to the actual war in order to make it interesting, but not too cliched and teen drama-ish?

#1: I personally liked the idea of Sonic and Tails having it out. Making Tails his own person and coming into his own is what's best in my opinion. Now, having a knock-down-drag-out over a girl... well... Tails at 12 is too young to have it be serious enough if she's of age, and if she's of Tails' age bracket, then... that turns Sonic into a pedophile. Not to say Tails couldn't have feelings for an older girl, I just don't think it would be to the point of violence if Sonic tried to be with her, plus I don't see Sonic doing something uncool like taking his friend's love interest, even if she doesn't return that interest. Now, like I said, I like the idea of him and Tails having a brawl, but it could be over a lot of different things, like Sonic trying to be overprotective of Tails and him not wanting to stay under Sonic's thumb so to speak.

 

#2: Having a common enemy will make strange bedfellows, just look at Naugus and the FF in Season 2. I personally see it as they'd be uneasy allies, but soon after if Robotnik is defeated I would see them starting to fight.

 

#3: It really depends on wot you are wanting. For character interaction/development it should be done, but balanced, you do not want it to take over your story and become a distraction/show stopper. If you're going more story centered and focusing less on character development then you want to marginalize it, but not to the point that the characters become flat if that makes sense.

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On 5/29/2017 at 10:03 PM, Prince By-Tor said:

I like the idea of him and Tails having a brawl, but it could be over a lot of different things, like Sonic trying to be overprotective of Tails and him not wanting to stay under Sonic's thumb so to speak

I am personally am in this category when it comes to this issue. But I think you could better involve that in a plot if you involve philosophical differences between them as well. This opens the door to several things. Perhaps they morally disagree on how to handle a specific plot issue. Perhaps, in D&D parlance, one is a chaotic-good while Tails develops into a more lawful-good.  One could value order and governance while the other, Sonic, values personal liberty and individualism. You can both be moral individuals and have a difference of opinion when it comes to ethics and policy. This would ground a long arching tension between the two into a concrete and immediate plot. Perhaps even you could have someone manipulating Tails Palpatine-style like when it came to Anakin and Obi-wan ("he's jealous of your power") to help exacerbate that difference and actually make the division between the two a threat to actually all the hold dear, a lever for an antagonist to pull for that bi of extra leverage he needs to achieve is dastardly ends.

To add to this question: If Sonic were to come to a huge dissent in opinion with Tails, what would most logically be?

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is long overdue, but anyway, I'll share my thoughts about these questions

On 5/25/2017 at 7:56 AM, WarTraveller said:

1: Nope. I get that Sonic and Tails are bros and while conflict is certainly not a problem - Tails should NOT be Sonic's walking toolbox as he is in Lost World - every attempt to try and get the two to fight have not worked. Be it continuously trying to tease a Sonic and Tails fight when we KNOW they don't have the guts to actually do it (Colours, Lost World) or just doing it really, REALLY poorly (Boom). Oddly enough, Boom actually has the best relationship between the two - they're not completely buddy-buddy, they argue and all, but they're not bitter and resentful either. They feel like...friends.

I do agree the Sonic/Tails fights have failed miserably in past continuity, but I believe that has more to do with it being horribly contrived and forced more than anything.

Take two of the more infamous examples: Archie Sonic 178 and Sonic Lost Worlds. Both examples, one or both of them were horribly out of character. Sonic acted like a complete butthead towards Tails and his parents in the comic, insulting both of them without the slightest remorse. That line of Sonic saying Tails worships him? Yea, that was just despicable. I would have hit Sonic even harder if I was Tails just to show my contempt for that.

And then his so called apology later? Halfhearted and insincere at best. He was no better than Buck towards his son in Chicken Little, as if indirectly blaming Tails for this even though it CLEARLY was Sonic's fault.

In Sonic Lost Worlds, it was even more contrived and pathetic because since when did Tails have a problem working with Eggman when push came to shove? He seemed perfectly fine about it in Sonic Adventure 2 and Shadow the Hedgehog. So this whole Sonic not trusting him was just utterly asinine. I could have maybe let it go if Eggman was trying to show up Tails when they were working together and Sonic was getting a little too complimentary about Eggman's help, but no, that's not what happened at all. Tails just flies off the handle for no reason.

Seriously, was that game trying to imitate 178? Because they managed to make the conflict even more convoluted and nonsensical.

But yea... I'm probably preaching to the choir on this, so anyhow, back to the main question at hand, I personally believe a Sonic/Tails conflict can work, AS LONG OF COURSE as their reason for fighting makes sense. For example,if something or someone personal in Tails' life is taken cruelly from him and Sonic didn't help enough to try and save it, I believe Tails would get angry enough to call Sonic on it since he no doubt trusted him to save the day and he let him down.

Ironically one of the better examples of Sonic/Tails having a conflict was Sonic X after Cosmo sacrificed herself for the sake of her friends. When Sonic came back, unable to save Cosmo from death, Tails was completed devastated and heartbroken, even hitting Sonic a bit in anger and grief, demanding, "Why didn't you save her? You're supposed to be the hero here. Why? WHY?!"

And the fact Sonic takes it without the slightest rebuke in return really showed the depth of his true character. He knew he let Tails down, even if there was nothing he could have done, feeling sympathy for his lil bro and friend.THAT to me is how you do a conflict between them. Sure, Sonic X was probably one of the worse shows of showing them as friends and brothers, but that moment there? Just beautiful. 

So yea, I actually would have loved to have seen a conflict between them, but it brought them closer together when it was all said and done, not just some stupid conflict that's swept under the rug like it never happened.

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2: Depends. G.U.N is portrayed very...schizo-like throughout the entire franchise. First they're sleezy, corrupt and evil, next they're paragons of protection. I guess it just depends on which version is shown off.

Yes, I'm fully aware of G.U.N being horribly inconsistent in the series, and that to me is inexcusable on SEGA's part. To me, G.U.N was one of the better neutral/X-factors of the series. The problem was they never were portrayed properly. They just seemed there just because the plot demanded it. Not to mention they were pathetic in terms of stopping Robotnik and Sonic. Sure, I'm not expecting them to be as threatening of a force compared to the main characters, but seriously, make them a roadblock if nothing else for either side they oppose. Don't just have Sonic and Robotnik's forces walk all over them like they're made of paper.

Anyhow, to answer my own question, I do see the Freedom Fighters and G.U.N having their own personal battle during their fight to topple the Robotnik Empire for several possible reasons.

1: G.U.N I assume is as prejudiced towards Mobians as Robotnik is, so any alliance they have with the Knothole Freedom Fighters would be mostly for their benefit, not theirs the planet's.

2: I could see G.U.N being paranoid once Robotnik's Empire is toppled that the Mobians will overrun them due to them having alot more numbers in population, making Mobius a utopia for their kind, but treating the humans/Overlanders as 2nd class citizens. Thus, they would be willing to fight them over territory to prevent that from happening, even if we know that would never happen since I'm pretty sure Sally would want to make a treaty and make it so both Mobian and Overlander are treated equally.

3: As you mentioned, I do believe G.U.N is a bit corrupt, thus if nothing else, they would be willing to start a war with the Freedom Fighters for land that they felt belonged to them and would further their agenda to be free of Robotnik's reign and eventually control the planet. 

Which reason do I see most logical for a possible conflict between G.U.N and the Freedom Fighters? I would say a little of each. Since the Great War was started over an act of prejudice, it wouldn't take much of that again to start up another one. Plus, I could also see Robotnik or Snively, whichever one is in charge at the time deciding to throw a red herring to get them to fight and turn on each other.

Hey, if they can get their enemies to do the dirty work for them, why wouldn't they? Plus, it sounds like something both of those two would easily pull due to their cunningness as villains. 

As for how it would be resolved? Well, I'm not 100% sure on that, but I would say perhaps after seeing how their fight is hurting each side and accomplishing nothing, Sally would try to use diplomatic means to get G.U.N to get off their high horse and see they are only playing right into their enemies' hands. Maybe G.U.N would be convinced after Robotnik gets tired of waiting of seeing them kill each other and eventually takes action to attack when their guard down.

If anyone has any ideas about this, feel free to share, but that's my best guess for the time being.

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3: Simple. Wait until the war is over. THEN put it at the forefront. You've got bigger problems in  war than merely being peeved about someone else hitting on "your" girl.

I can't argue with that. The war is definitely more important than some romantic conflict. Although, I don't see anything wrong with some happening within reason. You know, like one or two over a whole series that's just a mere subplot and doesn't get in the way of the actual story. That was one of Archie Sonic's biggest problems. It focused way too much on the romantic tension and not enough on the battle at hand.

Case in point: The Iron Queen saga.

While I doubt I'd like that story much better if it did focus more on the battle, I do admit seeing all that pointless Sally/Monkey Khan was just stupid. Seriously, what did it accomplish? Next to nothing.

So yea, that's my take on romantic drama in a story. As long as they are far and few inbetween and don't steal the spotlight from the main story at hand, I say why not?

 

On 5/29/2017 at 7:03 PM, Prince By-Tor said:

#1: I personally liked the idea of Sonic and Tails having it out. Making Tails his own person and coming into his own is what's best in my opinion. Now, having a knock-down-drag-out over a girl... well... Tails at 12 is too young to have it be serious enough if she's of age, and if she's of Tails' age bracket, then... that turns Sonic into a pedophile. Not to say Tails couldn't have feelings for an older girl, I just don't think it would be to the point of violence if Sonic tried to be with her, plus I don't see Sonic doing something uncool like taking his friend's love interest, even if she doesn't return that interest. Now, like I said, I like the idea of him and Tails having a brawl, but it could be over a lot of different things, like Sonic trying to be overprotective of Tails and him not wanting to stay under Sonic's thumb so to speak.

Well said, man. I don't mind Tails trying to be his own man either, but not when it means making him obnoxious, smug and just plain unlikable. Seriously, did Dexter from Dexter's Lab swap bodies with Tails? Because I'm seeing more of him in Tails now than his sweet kindhearted self from past series.

And yes, like I mentioned above, if Tails is going to get angry over Sonic about something and have a fight about it, have it be something that actually makes sense. What's next? Tails is going to flip out at Sonic for touching his computer? -.-

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#2: Having a common enemy will make strange bedfellows, just look at Naugus and the FF in Season 2. I personally see it as they'd be uneasy allies, but soon after if Robotnik is defeated I would see them starting to fight.

Exactly. I never see G.U.N and the Freedom Fighters being buddy-buddy with each other. More like, "You wash my back, I'll wash yours." kind of alliance. As long as it suits them, they'll do it.

As for whether they'd fight after Robotnik is overthrown? I would say it's possible, but I don't think it would happen since I think by then Sally would convince their leader they are not their enemy and are willing to work out a treaty that's good for both of them. Plus, I think as long as they got a good deal from it, G.U.N would let them be for at least the time being.

Maybe something like a boundary line too where Mobians stay on one side and the Overlanders stay on the other for those who are still prejudice.

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#3: It really depends on wot you are wanting. For character interaction/development it should be done, but balanced, you do not want it to take over your story and become a distraction/show stopper. If you're going more story centered and focusing less on character development then you want to marginalize it, but not to the point that the characters become flat if that makes sense.

Good point. Honestly, I think all stories should be character developed driven. I mean, I'm all for a good story on its own, but it's the characters that make it go or not. You need to know who you're rooting for and against to make it worth investing your time in reading all the way through.

 

On 6/2/2017 at 10:38 AM, TheRedStranger said:

I am personally am in this category when it comes to this issue. But I think you could better involve that in a plot if you involve philosophical differences between them as well. This opens the door to several things. Perhaps they morally disagree on how to handle a specific plot issue. Perhaps, in D&D parlance, one is a chaotic-good while Tails develops into a more lawful-good.  One could value order and governance while the other, Sonic, values personal liberty and individualism. You can both be moral individuals and have a difference of opinion when it comes to ethics and policy. This would ground a long arching tension between the two into a concrete and immediate plot. Perhaps even you could have someone manipulating Tails Palpatine-style like when it came to Anakin and Obi-wan ("he's jealous of your power") to help exacerbate that difference and actually make the division between the two a threat to actually all the hold dear, a lever for an antagonist to pull for that bi of extra leverage he needs to achieve is dastardly ends.

Interesting take on this I have to admit.

While the idea of someone manipulating Tails to say he doesn't need Sonic to prove his worth s an idea worth exploring, I can't honestly see who would possibly do that and make it credible. It definitely wouldn't be Robotnik because he wouldn't bother with that knowing his hatred for all Mobians.

Naugus? Maybe, but why would he bother manipulating Tails when he can just as easily do that with Snively and gain control over the planet in the process?

G.U.N? Highly unlikely. While their tech might intrigue him, they also fall into the category of Robotnik of being prejudice against Mobians.

The Dark Legion? Eh, no. I mean, yea, Finitevus might be intrigued by Tails' special abilities, but Tails would be too old then for Finitevus to manipulate as well like he would a 5 year old child.Plus, I think he'd want to manipulate someone with stronger powers that would further his goals. Tails just being a tech wiz wouldn't help much since I'm pretty sure most of the Dark Legion are already tech savvy.

The Destructix? If Fiona was apart of it, then absolutely yes. How far he could be manipulated though is another question. I know he has the hots for Fiona and would want to do almost anything for her if it meant getting her love,  but that would also include them not letting him know Fiona is really Scourge's girl and she's just using Tails to further Scourge's agenda as leader of that group.

But yea, to be honest, I really don't like the idea of Fiona being there just because she, "likes being a bad girl" I think it should be more like she joined because she feels they're the only ones who care about her. Not to mention wanting to get revenge for Sonic and the others leaving her to die too.

So I have to say all things considered, I think a conflict with Sonic/Tails fight would be more believable if it was over some ethics, being under Soinc's thumb too long or Tails feeling Sonic let him down and didn't see to care that he did, even though that would be mostly his anger clouding his judgement on that past point.

If anyone has any further points on any of these concepts, I'd love to hear it and know.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Eh, might as well keep this thread alive with a few more questions.

1: I know I technically asked about this earlier, but for a bit more specific response, do you think characters like Elias Acorn, Geoffrey St John and Mina Mongoose could fit in the Satam universe and be integrated into the series as part of the cast? If yes, please explain. If not, explain that as well.

2: Do you think a battle to the death between Robotnik and Snively would work as part of the series' overall plot?

3: Do you think the whole plot of Amy introduced as a kid and growing up due to a magical item have any chance of working in Satam's universe or do you think she should just be 12-14 from the get go?

4: Do you think villain groups like the Dark Legion and  Destructix would work in the Satam universe as part of the cast? If yes, please explain and how would you portray them. If not, please explain why you don't believe they would.

5: How far do you think the series should go in terms of violence and showing the horror of such things like roboticization, injury and death? Should it show alot, not much or as much as it needs to gets its point across? 

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On 7/1/2017 at 7:55 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Eh, might as well keep this thread alive with a few more questions.

1: I know I technically asked about this earlier, but for a bit more specific response, do you think characters like Elias Acorn, Geoffrey St John and Mina Mongoose could fit in the Satam universe and be integrated into the series as part of the cast? If yes, please explain. If not, explain that as well.

2: Do you think a battle to the death between Robotnik and Snively would work as part of the series' overall plot?

3: Do you think the whole plot of Amy introduced as a kid and growing up due to a magical item have any chance of working in Satam's universe or do you think she should just be 12-14 from the get go?

4: Do you think villain groups like the Dark Legion and  Destructix would work in the Satam universe as part of the cast? If yes, please explain and how would you portray them. If not, please explain why you don't believe they would.

5: How far do you think the series should go in terms of violence and showing the horror of such things like roboticization, injury and death? Should it show alot, not much or as much as it needs to gets its point across? 

1. I am doubtful about Mina mostly because she was seem to made as a diet Amy rose. Granted I could see Elias and Geoffrey working. However, Elias would need to be tooled due to the fact Satam made no mention of Sally having the possibility of a brother at all. 

2.a battle to the death or a power struggle would be an interesting story with snerdly and Robotnik.

3. Get go.

4. I see the destructix but the dark legion, eh. Penders described them as a group that could eat Robotnik for breakfast but that was hardly ever backed up with his writing.

5. Nothing too blood and guts gory for deaths and Roboticization. Maybe something like sonic's nightmare of Sally being roboticized in the show. 

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9 hours ago, TheRedStranger said:

I will answer these soon as well. But first I want to elaborate on question three. Why do you think your answer is best Alex? Care to elaborate for me?

Well I think she should be 12-14 from the get go due to how the plot was handled prior. As they made Amy making a selfish decision having her older to join the ffs on missions than saving Elias and Sally's Mom. Granted later it was made a non-issue, but it tarnished Amy as a character.

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On 5/24/2017 at 8:34 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Well, seeing this thread really dead as of late, I figured I'd ask a few questions I've been pondering about for my fic to see if I can get answers and opinions about it.

#1: Do you believe Sonic and Tails having a real personal fight over something or someone like that one issue in Archie Sonic would make for a good episode if done right?

#2: If G.U.N was apart of the series, do you see them and the Freedom Fighters having their own personal conflict where they would fight each other instead of working together against Robotnik?

#3: How much detail do you think love triangles should go into compared to the actual war in order to make it interesting, but not too cliched and teen drama-ish?

Sorry it's taken me so long to answer your questions, so I might as well answer all of them! ^_^

1: Over something yes, someone like a romantic interest however I do not agree with at all as @Prince By-Tor has already pointed that out. I mean House of Cards had a decent concept going there though I think was not as well executed as it could have been do to the context of the fight's roots and not any other problem Tails had with Sonic, I mean with THAT Sonic there are WAY more important issues and problems Tails should have with him. Seriously he makes STC Sonic look like AoSTH Sonic if you ask me, anyway regarding an ideology or competence to the point that Sonic and Tails duke it out however would be more fitting to just Sonic doing Tails wrong in some way. Crazy thing is I've seen fans whine about how they shouldn't fight because they are best friends, I roll my eyes over these oversensitive fans as best friends fighting each other and such is a staple to a lot of other series.

Also Sonic Lost World was just poorly written so obviously not because of that, I mean Colors was no masterpiece by any mean in it's story but at least it seemed like the writers didn't make it up at the last minute there. Sonic and Tails fighting is something much more special then people realize but many from what I've seen so far either never take that chance or are against it, it depends on what type of Sonic Series it is and who they are for it to be appropriate most of all and shouldn't be used just for shock value either or to cover up a rather mundane plot as Lost World had.

2: GUN has been an odd anomaly for any Sonic Series, for SatAM that would have to depend on how they are adapted. They could be neutral party and sometimes ally but that could turn the other way around depending on how they are handled. For one they don't seem to be effective after Shadow's game as they haven't made an appearance since then and were never featured prominently well in Archie Sonic, they should be effective but not too inept but not so much that it makes the main characters and Freedom Fighters pointless either. They're hard to adapt, but not impossible to implement well.

3 Oh boy this is gonna be a fun one, I don't need to tell you that Archie Sonic focused WAY too much on that then they should have, every main writer in the series was guilty of that in some way. Penders worst of all considering the 9 year age difference between Geoffrey and Sally, which I found out myself thank you very much, especially how inappropriate that was. Regarding Romance though, it shouldn't be the main focus of the story or at least not the main plot of the characters, romance and love is something we all experience in some way or form and is one of the most human things you can write. Problem is people want to see architectures rather then people and dance around in cliches rather then deal with it as they should hence all those hokey fanfictions, novels, and the Lifetime channel. Have it be interesting with characters who have chemistry between them that shouldn't get in the way of the main story, because if feelings get in the way of what's going on then BAD things happen or should happen in those moments that count regarding the main story. But it shouldn't overwrite the main plot and focus of the story itself lest you end up with the same problems the Archie Comic had.
 

On 7/1/2017 at 8:55 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Eh, might as well keep this thread alive with a few more questions.

1: I know I technically asked about this earlier, but for a bit more specific response, do you think characters like Elias Acorn, Geoffrey St John and Mina Mongoose could fit in the Satam universe and be integrated into the series as part of the cast? If yes, please explain. If not, explain that as well.

2: Do you think a battle to the death between Robotnik and Snively would work as part of the series' overall plot?

3: Do you think the whole plot of Amy introduced as a kid and growing up due to a magical item have any chance of working in Satam's universe or do you think she should just be 12-14 from the get go?

4: Do you think villain groups like the Dark Legion and  Destructix would work in the Satam universe as part of the cast? If yes, please explain and how would you portray them. If not, please explain why you don't believe they would.

5: How far do you think the series should go in terms of violence and showing the horror of such things like roboticization, injury and death? Should it show alot, not much or as much as it needs to gets its point across? 

1: Elias would be tricky for a SatAM setting, especially since he was made to replace Sally by Penders...
Still I think there could be something to him it just depends on what angle that is and how he's played, overall he's pretty flexible in a story I'd say and can be an interesting character depending on his age, how and why he's alive, and what does that mean for Sally? Having him to replace Sally or King Acorn is a waste of his potential and honestly I haven't seen him used well at all.
First thing I have to say about Geoffrey, either he's around the same age as Sally or does NOT have any romantic feelings for her at all, as I mentioned earlier how creepy he was in the Archie Comic. However having him as a Rival to Sonic I can see working very well, he's more of a self trained everyman that had to work hard to be the capable fighter he is rather then Sonic who somehow has Super Speed and can technically breeze through impossible odds so to speak. Geoffrey had the start of something going for him in the Archie Comic but overall his background and age taints whatever potential he had there so yeah Geoffrey was also never used properly at all., kind of a recurring theme for Archie Sonic made characters really.
Mina is a tough one, I mean she wasn't offensive like Geoffrey but wasn't entirely used well, barely at all other then for a love triangle subplot. Funny enough she basically played Amy Rose's roll in that series to the point of making Amy pointless, seriously replace Mina with Amy in those plotlines and they'd go pretty much the same way. Also her having speed similar to Sonic is just redundant if you ask me, not only to Sonic but to Mina herself as well (something the character ALSO didn't use in her later appearances), The only thing she was good at was being a singer for moral support across the world, not sure how that would translate well in SatAM though. I'm not against having Mina in a Sonic Series but you'd really have to remake her from the ground up I'd say, she could still be a singer but I dunno what else she could do for the story.

2: I'd say that could work very well, I mean having two antagonist forces at odds and against each other would also mean twice the damage for everyone around them, it would be fun to see how that would pan out for the Freedom Fighters and have their hands full with them both. Only thing is how would Snively gain all that power and/or enough forces to be out on his own without need for Robotnik. That was again played with in Archie Sonic but nothing to the extent of it being impressive, okay at best but not great.

3: Either way this goes, Amy should NEVER be aged up by some magic ring or anything like that as that brings up a lot of implications and unfortunate possible moments. Bollers once was going to have Sonic and Amy together before he left, I don't have to tell you how messed up it would be if a 10 year old in a 16 year old body dating a teenager would be now do I? Now having Amy Rose as a character be around the ages of 8 - 12 I think would be like a coming of age story in a way, having her own phases and coming to as her own hero wanting to help out others for the right reasons rather then some silly crush. However having Amy be 14 to 16, around Sonic's age would be a bit more complicated, though again something along the lines of what happened to Mina in Archie Sonic comes to mind. Amy Rose we all know has been nothing but a running joke of crushing on an teenager, it's beyond played out. Having her grow up and maturing into a capable person who has her priorities straight would be the best way to handle her. She's not as unsalvageable as people make her out to be, best example for a Good Amy is her Sonic The Comic incarnation and continuing on from that STC-O, a much better character compared to the usual fan girl we've seen far too often of.

4: The Destructix? As in a group of mercenaries hired to hunt down our heroes? Yeah that pretty much answers itself, would be a monkey wrench for everyone if such a group were to be in there. Though that depends on who hires or gets them first to work with whoever, so that all depends on how you'd want them to go. I mean the Destructix themselves have very little backgrounds so they'd be very flexible to work with if you were to use them as they are.
Dark Legion on the other hand, I don't know about that, I think we're ALL tired of seeing Echidnas everywhere causing trouble for everything they touch. At least I am, but then again the Echidnas were never established in SatAM at all so how'd they be in such stories...whose to say what they are up to? That is if they aren't extinct, which just about every continuity makes a note of (even if it isn't entirely true) but even despite that considering how the Dark Legion's idolatry regarding technology if they were somehow in the story they'd be most likely working for Robotnik from the get-go as they're Trans-humanism beliefs are quite similar. Overall they're rather redundant but they could work under the right circumstances.

5: It depends on how it's framed, Animated Disney Films like The Lion King and Tarzan did it very well I'd say and such a tone would fit SatAM, it depends on how the story is going to go but I'd like to point out that excessive violence and gore is very unneeded, Sonic isn't a Slasher Movie after all, yet a lot of fans sometimes forget that sadly. That's not saying Blood can't be shown, it can if tastefully done, but lopping off limbs at a consistent rate isn't exceptable. If someone is going to lose a limb that should be a big, horrifying moment that effects your audience and characters as the ramifications of that are...well I'm sure you see what I mean. Also Samurai Jack's Last Season handled that perfectly too so that's a good example too.

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  • 3 months later...

Well, this is long overdue, but anyway, here's my responses to the last post of the recent questions

On 7/3/2017 at 6:02 PM, Mike Arcade said:

1: Elias would be tricky for a SatAM setting, especially since he was made to replace Sally by Penders...
Still I think there could be something to him it just depends on what angle that is and how he's played, overall he's pretty flexible in a story I'd say and can be an interesting character depending on his age, how and why he's alive, and what does that mean for Sally? Having him to replace Sally or King Acorn is a waste of his potential and honestly I haven't seen him used well at all.
First thing I have to say about Geoffrey, either he's around the same age as Sally or does NOT have any romantic feelings for her at all, as I mentioned earlier how creepy he was in the Archie Comic. However having him as a Rival to Sonic I can see working very well, he's more of a self trained everyman that had to work hard to be the capable fighter he is rather then Sonic who somehow has Super Speed and can technically breeze through impossible odds so to speak. Geoffrey had the start of something going for him in the Archie Comic but overall his background and age taints whatever potential he had there so yeah Geoffrey was also never used properly at all., kind of a recurring theme for Archie Sonic made characters really.
Mina is a tough one, I mean she wasn't offensive like Geoffrey but wasn't entirely used well, barely at all other then for a love triangle subplot. Funny enough she basically played Amy Rose's roll in that series to the point of making Amy pointless, seriously replace Mina with Amy in those plotlines and they'd go pretty much the same way. Also her having speed similar to Sonic is just redundant if you ask me, not only to Sonic but to Mina herself as well (something the character ALSO didn't use in her later appearances), The only thing she was good at was being a singer for moral support across the world, not sure how that would translate well in SatAM though. I'm not against having Mina in a Sonic Series but you'd really have to remake her from the ground up I'd say, she could still be a singer but I dunno what else she could do for the story.
 

Honestly, when it came to Elias, I always thought of one role that would fit him perfectly: being the character that was attacked by a group of Overlanders and left for dead, causing the seeds of the Great War to spring up since he was the prince and King Max being enraged by this, retaliated by attacking one of their cities, which in turn caused the Overlander kingdom to declare war on the Acorn Kingdom and begin a long and bloody battle. What I had in mind for Elias would be a bit similar to Nicole's fate from Ben Hurst's notes, but in this case be so disfigured from the Overlander attack, no one would recognize him. Plus, Elias wouldn't even know he was since he suffered severe head trauma and only being 7 at the time, would have no memories of being a prince. At least for the time being.

Also like with Nicole, it was Julian who orchestrated the attack on Prince Elias, wanting to start a war so he could undermine his brother's reign as the leader from within and overthrow him in time, which failed since he saw right through Julian's treachery and tried to have him executed, which led to him and Snively defecting to the Acorn Kingdom after barely escaping with their lives.

As for Geoffrey, I planned to do something not even close to his comic counterpart. In my version, he would be a leader of an underground shelter, but in a situation similar to Sonic Underground with Stripes, he would be in cahoots with Julian, but not because he wanted to, but out of fear and desperation. Wanting to keep the people he led safely, he made a deal with Robotnik if he didn't attack his shelter and left them alone, he'd do some of his dirty bidding in exchange. Deciding to take advantage of this, Robotnik agreed, telling him he must inform him of any the resistance's plans when he found out. True to his word, Geoffrey did just that, undermining many of his comrades missions just to save his own hide. Eventually, Sally and the Knothole Freedom Fighters would show up, wanting to form an alliance and strike at the Robotnik Empire tomorrow. To save face, Geoffrey agrees, pretending to do so, but then later that night, calls Julian about their plans. Only this time, he gets caught. . Not by Sally, Sonic, or any of their comrades, but by second in command, none other Elias, though would be called a different name by this time since no one would know his name or his past. I plan to have ti so it was Geoffrey's father Ian who found Elias barely alive after being left for dead and nursed him back to health, eventually forming a deep friendship with his son Geoffrey. After Robotnik took over, Ian was the leader of the shelter, but within a few years, he was caught and roboticized during a siege  which the Mobians there barely fought off. Fearing Robotnik would come back and soon, Geoffrey than made that deal because he not the brave hero his father was. Like Antoine, he too was a coward, but unlike Antoine, he would never overcome his fears and rise above them, as he'll end up roboticized soon after by Robotnik who would no longer play nice and finally turn on him.

It's during that part of the series Sally will finally discover the truth about her supposedly dead brother Elias, as some memories of his finally surface after Sally says a phrase that she learned from her father, a phrase Elias was told as well, and it is then he'll remember who he was before his tragic fate many years ago. 

As for Mina, you're right. She is a tough one to put into the series and have it work. I do think her singing could at least lift the spirits of the comrades. I've even tinkered with the idea her voice is something unique, being able to wreck some havoc on Robotnik's machines with it. No, her voice wouldn't destroy them or anything, but perhaps maybe jam their frequencies and slow them down a bit. I admit this one I'm not sure about, but yea, these are basically my ideas with these three characters.

 

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2: I'd say that could work very well, I mean having two antagonist forces at odds and against each other would also mean twice the damage for everyone around them, it would be fun to see how that would pan out for the Freedom Fighters and have their hands full with them both. Only thing is how would Snively gain all that power and/or enough forces to be out on his own without need for Robotnik. That was again played with in Archie Sonic but nothing to the extent of it being impressive, okay at best but not great.

 

Yea, I always thought near the end of the series, Snively would finally revolt against Robotnik and try to take him out, realizing if he did indeed succeed at defeating Sonic and his comrades, Julian would no longer have any purpose keeping him around, thus finally turn into that paperweight he keeps threatening to do to keep him in line. And yes, that so called battle between Snively and Eggman in the comic in the Mecha Sally arc was pathetic. I mean, seriously, it could have removed from the story entirely and not changed anything. What was the point of Eggman shoving Snively in a box or whatever that was, because he could? 


 

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3: Either way this goes, Amy should NEVER be aged up by some magic ring or anything like that as that brings up a lot of implications and unfortunate possible moments. Bollers once was going to have Sonic and Amy together before he left, I don't have to tell you how messed up it would be if a 10 year old in a 16 year old body dating a teenager would be now do I? Now having Amy Rose as a character be around the ages of 8 - 12 I think would be like a coming of age story in a way, having her own phases and coming to as her own hero wanting to help out others for the right reasons rather then some silly crush. However having Amy be 14 to 16, around Sonic's age would be a bit more complicated, though again something along the lines of what happened to Mina in Archie Sonic comes to mind. Amy Rose we all know has been nothing but a running joke of crushing on an teenager, it's beyond played out. Having her grow up and maturing into a capable person who has her priorities straight would be the best way to handle her. She's not as unsalvageable as people make her out to be, best example for a Good Amy is her Sonic The Comic incarnation and continuing on from that STC-O, a much better character compared to the usual fan girl we've seen far too often of.

No argument there. The more I look at that story about the magic ring, the more it just looks unsalvagable. So, if I was going to give Amy an age, I'd make her about 14 at oldest and 12 at youngest. That way, her relationship with Sonic being his fangirl is not nearly as creepy. And yes, I fully agree it's time for Amy to grow up and mature. I don't mind her having a crush on Sonic, but darn it, SEGA, stop making her so cliched and stereotypical about it! I don't see why they can't have Amy mature and grow as a character. She can still be Sonic's fangirl and be in love with him, but have her learn from it and eventually grow out of it. I don't see why that's such a hard thing to do.

 

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4: The Destructix? As in a group of mercenaries hired to hunt down our heroes? Yeah that pretty much answers itself, would be a monkey wrench for everyone if such a group were to be in there. Though that depends on who hires or gets them first to work with whoever, so that all depends on how you'd want them to go. I mean the Destructix themselves have very little backgrounds so they'd be very flexible to work with if you were to use them as they are.
Dark Legion on the other hand, I don't know about that, I think we're ALL tired of seeing Echidnas everywhere causing trouble for everything they touch. At least I am, but then again the Echidnas were never established in SatAM at all so how'd they be in such stories...whose to say what they are up to? That is if they aren't extinct, which just about every continuity makes a note of (even if it isn't entirely true) but even despite that considering how the Dark Legion's idolatry regarding technology if they were somehow in the story they'd be most likely working for Robotnik from the get-go as they're Trans-humanism beliefs are quite similar. Overall they're rather redundant but they could work under the right circumstances.

Honestly, I plan to have the Destructix not so much a mercenary hit squad who works for bounty, but more like a group of renegade Mobians who want to overthrow Robotnik, but don't want to do it the way of the resistance. If anything, they want to take over themselves, so they basically roam from place to place, staying off the radar, but taking advantage of any situation set before them for their own benefit to one day hopefully be strong enough to form their own kingdom. Of course, that never happens since they're only a small group and don't get enough support from their fellow brethren to do so.

While I agree the Dark Legion has been handled poorly in the comic, I do think they can be an interesting group of villains if written properly. Plus, they're another I can see forming an alliance with Robotnik. They give him Mobians with strong Chaos powers who have been legionized for his services and he leaves them alone. Like with Geoffrey, he honors the deal as long as it benefits him. Unlike with Geoffrey though, Robotnik never gets the chance to turn on them. Before he's finally had his fill of their services and take them out, Robotnik is overthrown by Sonic and Sally after destroying his Doomsday device , where Snively takes over. Seeing the Dark Legion as still a valuable ally, Snively keeps his treaty with them until Robotnik returns from the Void and resumes his reign as an evil dictator. By then, the Dark Legion is weakened to the point they become another Destructix in a sense: a small band of renegades trying to survive and find a way to return to power.

But yea, that's just my interpretation of them.
 

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5: It depends on how it's framed, Animated Disney Films like The Lion King and Tarzan did it very well I'd say and such a tone would fit SatAM, it depends on how the story is going to go but I'd like to point out that excessive violence and gore is very unneeded, Sonic isn't a Slasher Movie after all, yet a lot of fans sometimes forget that sadly. That's not saying Blood can't be shown, it can if tastefully done, but lopping off limbs at a consistent rate isn't exceptable. If someone is going to lose a limb that should be a big, horrifying moment that effects your audience and characters as the ramifications of that are...well I'm sure you see what I mean. Also Samurai Jack's Last Season handled that perfectly too so that's a good example too.

Good point. I think the Sonic series can be alot more violent in tone and still be effective, but it would need to be kept in check so it doesn't turn into something like Mortal Kombat. Just show enough to get the point across and leave it at that. As the old saying says, "All things in moderation."

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  • 1 month later...

Since I've been bringing back WWYDD topics lately it's best to revive the one that started it all!

I haven't seen any discussion regarding SatAM lately and I want to change that so here's one I've been wondering.

What do you think day to day life is like for everyone else in Knothole, Freedom Fighter or not? 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 11/28/2017 at 10:37 AM, Mike Arcade said:

Since I've been bringing back WWYDD topics lately it's best to revive the one that started it all!

I haven't seen any discussion regarding SatAM lately and I want to change that so here's one I've been wondering.

What do you think day to day life is like for everyone else in Knothole, Freedom Fighter or not? 

Surprised no one has answered this yet, but I'll take a shot at it. If I had to guess, I would say very stressful more than anything. Considering how Robotnik or Snively is always nipping at their heels, trying to find out their secret bunker and take them prisoner, I bet alot of them don't sleep soundly at night due to wondering is this the night they finally get discovered and raided.

Sure, they probably have things and friends to keep their mind off of it constantly, but I wouldn't be surprised if its nagging them at the back of their mind.

Anyway, I'll throw in some more questions as well to try to get this thread going again.

1: If Robotnik ever upgraded his robotic army to be even more formidable and competent, what type of design could you see them having? That and what new attacks do you think they would use too?

2: If you were going to write the saga where Naugus finally takes over as Season 3 was going to do, how would you write it exactly and would you make any changes to what the series originally had in mind?

3: What do you think of the idea of the Freedom Fighters reprogramming some of Robotnik's army to fight against him? And I mean actually be on the front lines rather than stealth measures like they showed? Do you think they should and if yes/no, please explain why.

4: Do you think Reploid type robots from Megaman X could work in a Sonic Satam universe? And when I say Reploid, I mean one in the form of a Mobian, but is a robot that is able to think, feel and make decisions independent of its programming. I'm not suggesting to have alot of them, but say one or two thrown in with unique abilities and designs, do you think that could possibly work as an added layer to the overall plot?

5: Do you think Snively should have family connections tied to G.U.N if they became apart of the series? Like his half sister Hope for example, but at an older age to make it less convoluted about her involvement there.

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1. I'm thinking he might make a cloaking robot or maybe a beefy swatbot. Or who knows maybe a weaponized roboticized Kat from season 1.

2. I'm still uncertain of that. 

3. It would be interesting creating dissent amongst his robots or roboticized slaves via giving them free will back or free will they never had. Certainly the dynamics would shift with Robotnik's empire and have more reliant on stuff he can build himself than forced labor.

4. It would depend on the designs. Personally I think maybe storm eagle or sting chameleon may fit, sting chameleon more so. I mean if you want to have animal based robots sting chameleon would be a good example.

5. I wouldn't mind. Plus it could appeal to the game source material like Sonic Adventure 2 and the possibility of adapting the adventure series into the Satam series. Not exactly like what Archie did in the old days but some sort of adaptation that would separate itself from the likes of sonic x. 

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Since there wasn't a lot of input on the last question, I will answer both...

On 11/28/2017 at 1:37 PM, Mike Arcade said:

Since I've been bringing back WWYDD topics lately it's best to revive the one that started it all!

I haven't seen any discussion regarding SatAM lately and I want to change that so here's one I've been wondering.

What do you think day to day life is like for everyone else in Knothole, Freedom Fighter or not? 

Probably how it would be like for any group of refugees in constant hiding from a powerful foe.  The Knothole residents live basically in a hidden village undetected by Robotnik's survellience, so they do have the chance to try to live comfortably while always being on the alert for a possible attack.  From what we see in Satam and a little in the older comics, Knothole seems to operate like any other settlement:  residents live in comfortable huts, eat various dishes beyond that of bare minimum scraps, accomplish various tasks to maintain Knothole, and abide by Mobian laws that still preside them under the Acorn lineage.  Knothole, compared to other freedom groups, is alive and thriving (by Super Sonic, Knothole finally was able to run on electricity compliments of the water wheel), so the residents probably do spend their time building and maintaining Knothole and keeping their spirits up with various forms of activities and entertainment.  Being in a state of constant peril, however, the residents would still be on constant watch for Robotnik and probably partake in drills or training to be able to respond to the likely scenario of Knothole being discovered.

On 12/19/2017 at 9:08 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Surprised no one has answered this yet, but I'll take a shot at it. If I had to guess, I would say very stressful more than anything. Considering how Robotnik or Snively is always nipping at their heels, trying to find out their secret bunker and take them prisoner, I bet alot of them don't sleep soundly at night due to wondering is this the night they finally get discovered and raided.

Sure, they probably have things and friends to keep their mind off of it constantly, but I wouldn't be surprised if its nagging them at the back of their mind.

Anyway, I'll throw in some more questions as well to try to get this thread going again.

1: If Robotnik ever upgraded his robotic army to be even more formidable and competent, what type of design could you see them having? That and what new attacks do you think they would use too?

2: If you were going to write the saga where Naugus finally takes over as Season 3 was going to do, how would you write it exactly and would you make any changes to what the series originally had in mind?

3: What do you think of the idea of the Freedom Fighters reprogramming some of Robotnik's army to fight against him? And I mean actually be on the front lines rather than stealth measures like they showed? Do you think they should and if yes/no, please explain why.

4: Do you think Reploid type robots from Megaman X could work in a Sonic Satam universe? And when I say Reploid, I mean one in the form of a Mobian, but is a robot that is able to think, feel and make decisions independent of its programming. I'm not suggesting to have alot of them, but say one or two thrown in with unique abilities and designs, do you think that could possibly work as an added layer to the overall plot?

5: Do you think Snively should have family connections tied to G.U.N if they became apart of the series? Like his half sister Hope for example, but at an older age to make it less convoluted about her involvement there.

1.  The swatbots are formidable enough for most of the Mobians to face (far more effective than Robotniks' other robot cronnies in other media), so I could see Robotnik upgrading swatbot's armor and weaponry.  I could see Robotnik using more advanced designs of badniks to scout the Great Forest to locate Knothole (and seeing the various badniks found in the early Genesis games, we don't need much imagination some of these robots could be very effective in ambushing wandering Mobians).  I don't see this version of Robotnik just creating various robots without a purpose; he uses what is cheap but effective.  Any new robot he does create would have to be for a certain mission (scouting/spying/destruction). 

2.  I am not sure what the original plans for Naugus is, but I could see him having a different mission that counters Robotnik's world domination.  His flashback reveals him wanting to explore the void for an unknown cause, but his episode displays that the void has given him a wide arrangement of magical power.  Perhaps Naugus is interested in gaining more knowledge and magic to become a more powerful sorceror but to what purpose?  Naugus did not view Sonic as an enemy and even freed him to save his friends from the void, so Naugus doesn't appear to view Sonic as an enemy that could stop his plans.  I am curious as to what species Naugus is supposed to be...seeing there is nothing like him in the show (though I believe he does have a brother in the comics); perhaps his goal is tied to the legacy or lore of his species?  Either way, Naugus' individual quest for power would put him in conflict with anyone who comes between him and that power: Robotnik, Snively, Sonic...

3.  They may have tried that already and realized that Robotnik is too smart for that possible scenario.  The FF have been able to gain information from defeated swatbots, but Satam never showed them being able to reprogram the swatbots to change alliegence.  In Blast to the Past, Robotnik is shown locking the swatbot's commands to his voice alone (cutting off even his nephew from having a chance to command them); this could explain why the swatbots couldn't be reprogrammed to attack Robotnik.  As for the robotic version of Sal that Rotor reprogrammed, note that the robot isn't part of Robotnik's swatbot force; it was a secret project Robotnik and Snively worked on to infiltrate Knothole.  Since the robot isn't connected to the same programming as the swatbots, it probably wasn't given a safeguard to prevent reprogramming (much to Robotnik's dismay at the end of the episode).  Most likely this is just a one time occurance for Robotnik; seeing how the robot was turned against him, Robotnik probably took careful measures in new projects to prevent possible FF reprogramming.

4.  Not sure what these robots are, so no say.

5. I don't see GUN being part of the Satam universe, so my answer would be no.

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  • 2 months later...

This is long overdue, so I'll give my responses to the answers given to my questions

 

On 12/23/2017 at 4:52 AM, Ishapar said:

1.  The swatbots are formidable enough for most of the Mobians to face (far more effective than Robotniks' other robot cronnies in other media), so I could see Robotnik upgrading swatbot's armor and weaponry.  I could see Robotnik using more advanced designs of badniks to scout the Great Forest to locate Knothole (and seeing the various badniks found in the early Genesis games, we don't need much imagination some of these robots could be very effective in ambushing wandering Mobians).  I don't see this version of Robotnik just creating various robots without a purpose; he uses what is cheap but effective.  Any new robot he does create would have to be for a certain mission (scouting/spying/destruction). 

Yes, that is true. Robotnik wouldn't create new robots without a reason. However, considering his defeat at the hands of Sonic and Sally in the Doomsday device episode, I think that defeat would drive him to further rage and madness once he came back. Not to mention being tortured by Naugus constantly during that time would drive him to a level of insanity that would make him almost as mentally psychotic as the Joker. I could see Robotnik going from being calculating and methodical in his tactical approach to throwing caution to the wind and just doing whatever it takes to crush his enemies in this war. Not that he wouldn't use his head, but he wouldn't play it safe any longer. He would go to any lengths to exact his revenge for his humiliating defeats.

That's why I do believe Robotnik would spare no expense to upgrade his robotic army to make them the most formidable force on the planet. Even if it would mean going through resources like crazy to do so, Robotnik wouldn't care. He wants his enemies to know he is not to be toyed with any longer.

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2.  I am not sure what the original plans for Naugus is, but I could see him having a different mission that counters Robotnik's world domination.  His flashback reveals him wanting to explore the void for an unknown cause, but his episode displays that the void has given him a wide arrangement of magical power.  Perhaps Naugus is interested in gaining more knowledge and magic to become a more powerful sorcerer but to what purpose?  Naugus did not view Sonic as an enemy and even freed him to save his friends from the void, so Naugus doesn't appear to view Sonic as an enemy that could stop his plans.  I am curious as to what species Naugus is supposed to be...seeing there is nothing like him in the show (though I believe he does have a brother in the comics); perhaps his goal is tied to the legacy or lore of his species?  Either way, Naugus' individual quest for power would put him in conflict with anyone who comes between him and that power: Robotnik, Snively, Sonic...

I admit I'm a bit stumped on how to write this part either since I'm not sure what all Naugus had in mind once he took over. Maybe he wanted to turn Mobius into his magical playground and go to any lengths to become the most powerful wizard that not even Sonic could challenge him without help. Yes, I know Naugus didn't view Sonic as an enemy before, but my guess is he would in Season 3 because Sonic now stands in his way of conquering the world. With Robotnik currently out of the way, Naugus has no reason to ally with Sonic any longer, so if he tried to stop his rule, he would try to attack him the same as he did to Robotnik.

 

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3.  They may have tried that already and realized that Robotnik is too smart for that possible scenario.  The FF have been able to gain information from defeated swatbots, but Satam never showed them being able to reprogram the swatbots to change alliegence.  In Blast to the Past, Robotnik is shown locking the swatbot's commands to his voice alone (cutting off even his nephew from having a chance to command them); this could explain why the swatbots couldn't be reprogrammed to attack Robotnik.  As for the robotic version of Sal that Rotor reprogrammed, note that the robot isn't part of Robotnik's swatbot force; it was a secret project Robotnik and Snively worked on to infiltrate Knothole.  Since the robot isn't connected to the same programming as the swatbots, it probably wasn't given a safeguard to prevent reprogramming (much to Robotnik's dismay at the end of the episode).  Most likely this is just a one time occurance for Robotnik; seeing how the robot was turned against him, Robotnik probably took careful measures in new projects to prevent possible FF reprogramming.

Yes, I'm aware of the fact Swatbots are programmed to obey only Robotnik's voice. Still, I don't think they went into enough detail why the voice command feature was enough to override any possible hacking. Do they have a special firewall to prevent that? Are there fail safe methods should someone try to hack a Swatbot? Really, they didn't explain this well enough for me to believe Swatbots are unhackable. Plus, let's not forget Rotor hacked one Swatbot head to reveal Robotnik's plan of using Ari as a trap for Sonic in the episode Game Guy, so that tells me they can possibly be hacked.

Me personally though, I don't think they're worth the effort considering how easy they are to defeat, so unless it was to use as a diversion or even control one remotely from a distance to infiltrate, it wouldn't be worth the effort, but that's just me.

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4.  Not sure what these robots are, so no say.

Basically, Reploids are robots that are so advanced that they have the capability to think on their own and make their own decisions. While I wouldn't consider alot of them since it would be hard to write many of them properly, I think I could see Robotnik making one such machine, one that would be so advanced, it wouldn't need Robotnik to command it constantly. Just give it a mission and let it take care of it while monitoring its activity as an experiment. And in an ironic twist, Robotnik made it too self aware of an A.I that it realizes Robotnik's goals in life are wrong, thus rebels against him and joins the Freedom Fighters to stop him from destroying the world with his vile pollution and raping the planet of its resources.

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5. I don't see GUN being part of the Satam universe, so my answer would be no.

Care to explain why you don't think they wouldn't fit in a Satam universe? I mean, it's fine if you don't think they belong, but considering they're a military origination, it seems they would fit in somewhat because they would have weapons to fight back against Robotnik's tyranny and trying to break free from his rule over their world and city. Plus, they would make a great X factor of the series, a group that could hinder or help either side of the war depending on which side benefits them at the moment.

 

On 12/22/2017 at 6:01 PM, Akessel92 said:

1. I'm thinking he might make a cloaking robot or maybe a beefy swatbot. Or who knows maybe a weaponized roboticized Kat from season 1.

I like the idea of a cloaking robot or even one that looked like a Mobian, but was a Swatbot in disguise. Maybe something similar to an infiltration Terminator that looked like a human to get their guard down. I know that would be hard to pull off, but knowing how crafty Robotnik, it would make sense he'd try to make some and see if he could get their guard down and then conquer them from within.

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2. I'm still uncertain of that. 

Yea, I'm not going to repeat what I said about this idea above, but I'm curious to see how would someone write a saga with Naugus as ruler of Mobius and make it a good read. I admit I don't think this type of story is my strong suit since I don't write stories much involving magic.

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3. It would be interesting creating dissent amongst his robots or roboticized slaves via giving them free will back or free will they never had. Certainly the dynamics would shift with Robotnik's empire and have more reliant on stuff he can build himself than forced labor.

Perhaps, but honestly, I think the idea of reprogramming some Swatbots, Mega Muck units and so on back on Robotnik could be an interesting method of turning a battle on its head. Wouldn't have to create dissent so much as confusion since I think a Swatbot would not be programmed to deal with another Swatbot attacking it that it wouldn't know what to do. Heck, I doubt Robotnik would be stumped at first either since what can he say? Attack the rogue machines? Unless his army knew at that moment which ones were reprogrammed and which ones weren't, it would lead to basically the Swatbot army destroying itself trying to figure that out.

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4. It would depend on the designs. Personally I think maybe storm eagle or sting chameleon may fit, sting chameleon more so. I mean if you want to have animal based robots sting chameleon would be a good example.

That actually would be interesting I admit. But yea, as I said above, there should only be a limited amount of robots that are as highly advanced as a Megaman X type Reploid. I think it'd be hard to write alot of them properly due to the fact they're so intelligent, they're self aware and can make their own decisions, maybe 1-5 tops.

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5. I wouldn't mind. Plus it could appeal to the game source material like Sonic Adventure 2 and the possibility of adapting the adventure series into the Satam series. Not exactly like what Archie did in the old days but some sort of adaptation that would separate itself from the likes of sonic x. 

Oh yes, agreed. G.U.N was very poorly written in the comics. I would portray them more like the SA2 game and even Sonic X since that anime did expand upon G.U.N as an organization. Heck, I'd say Sonic X probably fleshed out G.U.N more than even SEGA did in their games. Sure, they still had alot of flaws and stuff, but I liked that they actually tried showing they were not just some organization for Sonic and Eggman to blow up their stuff. I always hated how easy it was in those games to turn G.U.N's forces into scrap metal.  

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  • 2 weeks later...

I apologize for not replying back mostly because I had personal things to attend. 

 

For naugus after doing some thinking, I think he would need his motivation for taking over mobotropolis flushed out to some greater degree. Understandably he worked with robotnik to take over but was betrayed. However, the episodes don't necessarily flush out his motives. In the old comics it was for his hunger for magical power along with taking over the order of ixis in Mogul's stead as he had no interest in taking over the world any longer. As for the new series he sought to take over the kingdom of acorn as it was once land that was controlled by his kind thousands of year ago by the troll civilization that worshiped the god Ixis. (Constants and variables).

 

Which again motivation needs to be flushed out more than the "I'm an evil wizard" cliche. 

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On 3/15/2018 at 12:28 PM, Akessel92 said:

I apologize for not replying back mostly because I had personal things to attend. 

 

For naugus after doing some thinking, I think he would need his motivation for taking over mobotropolis flushed out to some greater degree. Understandably he worked with robotnik to take over but was betrayed. However, the episodes don't necessarily flush out his motives. In the old comics it was for his hunger for magical power along with taking over the order of ixis in Mogul's stead as he had no interest in taking over the world any longer. As for the new series he sought to take over the kingdom of acorn as it was once land that was controlled by his kind thousands of year ago by the troll civilization that worshiped the god Ixis. (Constants and variables).

 

Which again motivation needs to be flushed out more than the "I'm an evil wizard" cliche. 

Agreed. Naugus' methods and motivations in the Satam cartoon were not that well fleshed out. To me, the best guess I can make is he wanted to turn Mobius into a planet of chaos like Robotnik did, but instead with machines and robots, it would be with magic. Maybe something similar to Discord from MLP: FIM when he turned the world into a complete magical mess. Wouldn't surprise me considering Robotnik was once his lackey. They probably thought alike about how to rule the planet, but using different methods to accomplish that.

Anyway, to keep this thread somewhat alive, I'll ask a few more questions for people to answer about

1: How would you expand upon the Xorda and Great War as part of the story if integrated into Satam? 

2: If Shadow was written into the series, how would you expand upon his backstory and relationship with Maria and Gerald Robotnik? 

3: Do you think a female Freedom Fighter that had the same super speed ability as Sonic would be an interesting character to explore as part of the cast? And I'm not talking about someone like Mina who can run fast, but literally run the same speed as Sonic. Do you think an idea like this could work and if so, how would you do it? If not, please explain why you don't think this idea would work at all.

4: Do you think the character Infinite/Jackal from Sonic Forces would work in a Satam series? If so, how would you portray him? If not, explain why.

5: While this sadly will always be a plot hole no matter you slice it, how would you still at least try to explain why Robotnik didn't attempt to destroy the Great Forest and Knothole until the pilot episode of the Satam series?

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  • 3 weeks later...

It's been a while...interesting ideas.

The whole idea of GUN just seems to be out of place in the Satam universe.  I guess GUN is in the Archie comics, but GUN existed solely for Shadow's story in Sonic Adventure 2 and from what we saw in the game, GUN is a human based government operation that reminds me too much of modern government agencies.  I guess Rouge is an exception to the human rule with GUN, but other than that there isn't much to GUN that would make it blend well with the Satam scene.  Satam features a mostly Mobian population with only two humans (maybe 3 if counting Lazaar), so where does the big human-majority government agency like GUN fit?  You can make it work, but you would have to expand the Satam universe to reflect more of the Modern gaming Sonic universe and the more you do so, the less unique Mobius becomes.

Shadow is pretty much tied to GUNS in the games, and I don't think his character would do Satam any good other than adding a controversial fan character into the baggage.

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16 hours ago, Ishapar said:

Shadow is pretty much tied to GUNS in the games, and I don't think his character would do Satam any good other than adding a controversial fan character into the baggage.

Very much this. Boom!Shadow is a good example of when fanservice goes hideously wrong.

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On 4/5/2018 at 6:50 PM, WarTraveller said:

Very much this. Boom!Shadow is a good example of when fanservice goes hideously wrong.

Exactly, and that is the problem of adhering to fan service.  Nothing wrong with listening to fans about some areas as long as it doesn't ruin the story's quality.  Plunging a bunch of Sega game characters into the Satam world would hurt the Satam story more than help it.  It's best to find which game characters can fit with the Satam story and gradually introduce them to the FF.  Shadow was a character made specifiaclly for the Sega of Japan chapter in Sonic history, and his folklore works better with the Japanese influence on the Sonic franchise.  Bringing Shadow into Satam would probably mean a lot of compromise for the Satam world and characters, and, since he is the number 2 character of the Sonic franchise to younger fans, his appearance would probably be heavily focused on while most of the main characters like Bunnie and Rotor would be put behind the scenes.  As mysterious as Shadow is, I would rather be interested in seeing more of the other FF (even Dulcy) getting character development as they are the original cast of Satam.

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Now that I think about it, Shadow will be difficult as the need to adjust him to that universe would be needed. Though I think other Sega characters like Mighty, Ray, Tikal, Chaos, could be in the SatAM universe. 

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8 hours ago, Akessel92 said:

Now that I think about it, Shadow will be difficult as the need to adjust him to that universe would be needed. Though I think other Sega characters like Mighty, Ray, Tikal, Chaos, could be in the SatAM universe. 

This sort of topic on applying fanservice is honestly a deep and complex topic - might have to make a whole other topic about it, in fact - but to keep it on topic, here is my take on it;

For fanservice like this, one of two things need to be the case; either the character is properly woven into the narrative or is simply outside of it altogether. This is where Boom Shadow and Classic Sonic both fail. The former was only transplanted in because of fanservice, and it shows through Shadow barely existing in the world of the show. The backstory and traits that made Shadow's character are now just gone, and what replaces it is generic at best and insulting to the character at worst. He was clearly shoehorned into something he just didn't belong, taking time and focus away from characters that may have needed it more, and filling that dead air with empty, faux-Vegeta nonsense.

As for the latter, you could happily remove Classic from Forces altogether...and basically NOTHING would change. Actually, the same goes for most of the villains too. 

To swing this around to the actual topic, to get a believable implementation of someone like Shadow, you'd either need to keep his role small and probably brief, or basically rewrite the guy from the ground up to fit in SATAM's world. My suggestion would be to make him a pure machine of war from Robotnick. No Ark, no Maria, maybe not even any Chaos Powers. Perhaps combine him with Metal (who would fit better in the show on account of coming from the same timeframe) and make a Composite Character, therefore putting a fresh spin on both. But THEN you have to ask yourself, is that even Shadow anymore? And if he isn't...then what's even the point of putting him in the show? Put simply, I'd say characters closer to SATAM's years of development, such as Mighty and Ray, would be easier and more sensible to integrate into the show, over a character made for a completely different type of audience at a very different time.

Oh yes, and this kind of reasoning is why I personally don't want the Freedom Fighters in IDW Sonic. Like it or not, IDW Sonic's setup has been written with SEGA'S quarter-baked substitute for the Freedom Fighters in mind.  Having them in the comic just because you want them to will just result in the wrong focus on the wrong thing...whatever that may be. I may be wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but the point stands that Modern Sonic cannot be trusted for reasonable storytelling anymore. At least with SATAM the sky was the limit...for a good while, at least. 

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On 3/17/2018 at 9:53 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

1: How would you expand upon the Xorda and Great War as part of the story if integrated into Satam? 

2: If Shadow was written into the series, how would you expand upon his backstory and relationship with Maria and Gerald Robotnik? 

3: Do you think a female Freedom Fighter that had the same super speed ability as Sonic would be an interesting character to explore as part of the cast? And I'm not talking about someone like Mina who can run fast, but literally run the same speed as Sonic. Do you think an idea like this could work and if so, how would you do it? If not, please explain why you don't think this idea would work at all.

4: Do you think the character Infinite/Jackal from Sonic Forces would work in a Satam series? If so, how would you portray him? If not, explain why.

5: While this sadly will always be a plot hole no matter you slice it, how would you still at least try to explain why Robotnik didn't attempt to destroy the Great Forest and Knothole until the pilot episode of the Satam series?


1. There's a lot you can do with The Great War, honestly I don't see a lot of fans if at all try to expand on it surprisingly enough. I mean with so many fans of SatAM and (more likely than not) Archie Sonic you'd think someone out there would have taken the reigns in to expand on it and tell stories using it. Literally this is an endless amount of possibilities with The Great War which is never expanded upon, of own squads and such having their own missions. For those who know of it think of all those different Universal Century Gundam stories told like War in the Pocket, stories that are happening during that War which you'd normally never hear about and how so many people are effected by it. It's a real shame that many a fan hasn't had the idea of taking it as their own.
Now as for regarding the Xorda, honestly as they are there isn't too much you could do with them. After all they're basically Daleks without their iconic robot suits, you could take them in a whole other direction and get something better out of it because there really isn't anything there other than generic alien invaders which is just boring and played out.

2 & 4. Regarding Shadow, Infinite, and Sega Characters in general I think @WarTraveller hit the nail on the head. It would just be boring if they were straight up adapted into SatAM or Archie Sonic (which in the comic is what they exactly did for Shadow). They would need to be adapted to fit into the new setting outright even if they may seem unrecognizable but similar enough. Does that make them the same character? Not really no but it's not a bad thing either, after all many comic books and adaptions take wildly different takes on our favorite heroes throughout the years to a variety degree of change and success. There's also the factor of familiarity which can draw in fans to a new take on a character, though as long as it has a good point to make using an older character, concept, or design in a new way than it's perfectly valid. You could use a whole new character in a certain spot, but sometimes you have to play in that unknown factor that would really kick the viewer in the gut for a surprise as long as it makes sense to the story and is familiar enough to not just be in name only.  A few that come to mind are the Golden and Silver Age Flash and Green Lantern along with Marvel Comics' 616 Universe and Ultimate Marvel. Strike a balance or have a very good reason for the changes, otherwise we'd just have dull, endless game adaptions XP

3. No, no because it takes away what makes Sonic unique as the "Fastest Thing Alive", it cheapens his abilities yet I can see where your coming from. It would provide with an interesting premise as him not being as fast as he thought. But at the same time it would seem as if this would "pair up" the two together which would just be boring. I wouldn't mind a lady who could keep up with Sonic but then again I suppose Blaze did so in Sonic Rush even though she isn't as fast as Sonic. Just seems like a good idea as a first thought until you really start to think it over.

5. Oh there are ways you could explain it, I can think of several really but there are ways in order for it to make sense I can assure you that. ;)
But really I don't see it as much of a plothole, I know Robotnik thrives on pollution but he's still part human in a lot of ways, kinda hard to go outside in smog if he dropped a nuke on them. I don't care how much of Robotnik is metallic radiation would not be good for his presumably poor complexion. :P 

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  • 4 weeks later...

This answer is long overdue, but anyway, here's my response to your answers, Mike.

 

On 4/9/2018 at 6:57 PM, Mike Arcade said:


1. There's a lot you can do with The Great War, honestly I don't see a lot of fans if at all try to expand on it surprisingly enough. I mean with so many fans of SatAM and (more likely than not) Archie Sonic you'd think someone out there would have taken the reigns in to expand on it and tell stories using it. Literally this is an endless amount of possibilities with The Great War which is never expanded upon, of own squads and such having their own missions. For those who know of it think of all those different Universal Century Gundam stories told like War in the Pocket, stories that are happening during that War which you'd normally never hear about and how so many people are effected by it. It's a real shame that many a fan hasn't had the idea of taking it as their own.
Now as for regarding the Xorda, honestly as they are there isn't too much you could do with them. After all they're basically Daleks without their iconic robot suits, you could take them in a whole other direction and get something better out of it because there really isn't anything there other than generic alien invaders which is just boring and played out.
 

That is a good point. One problem I can see trying to expand upon the Great War is trying to come up with a large enough cast to sustain such a war story, keeping it engaging and believable. Let's be honest, it's not called the Great War for nothing. Sure, Archie gave us some to tinker with, but to me, for the Great War to be fully expanded upon rightly, it'd have to be turned into a mini saga, covering the lives of not only the important cast like King Acorn, Uncle Chuck, Armand, Jules, Bernadette and so on. It'd have to cover the lives of the Overlanders leaders and civilians, the Acorn Kingdom troops and its citizens as well try to tie together the plot of how the Overlanders were winning until Julian defected and then turned the tables on them with his technology. There's sadly alot to cover. 

I'm not saying it can't be done, but for this story to be told correctly and have a deep impact with it audience, it would require ALOT of careful planning and thinking because this is not a story you can just rush through and say such and such happen without explaining in detail why. If I had to guess, the Great War could seriously be turned into a 500-700 page novel if it was turned into a book to read. 

I guess you got a point about the Xorda War. It's not a war that you can get too detailed about considering how it took place before most of the iconic cast was even born. If I had to guess, if I was going to write the Xorda War, it'd be something similar to the Clone Wars from Star Wars, where the Overlanders and Xorda fought countless battles in space, trying to conquer each other's planet and seize control of any territory possible, but in the process, it led to vast destruction, nearly wiping out all life on Mobius as well being responsible for the creation of the Mobian race thanks to Black Doom using his DNA to make Shadow and then used his DNA to clone other Mobians as a way to take over the planet from within.

I honestly cannot think of a better explanation for why G.U.N would invade the Space Colony Arc and shut it down. 

 

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2 & 4. Regarding Shadow, Infinite, and Sega Characters in general I think @WarTraveller hit the nail on the head. It would just be boring if they were straight up adapted into SatAM or Archie Sonic (which in the comic is what they exactly did for Shadow). They would need to be adapted to fit into the new setting outright even if they may seem unrecognizable but similar enough. Does that make them the same character? Not really no but it's not a bad thing either, after all many comic books and adaptions take wildly different takes on our favorite heroes throughout the years to a variety degree of change and success. There's also the factor of familiarity which can draw in fans to a new take on a character, though as long as it has a good point to make using an older character, concept, or design in a new way than it's perfectly valid. You could use a whole new character in a certain spot, but sometimes you have to play in that unknown factor that would really kick the viewer in the gut for a surprise as long as it makes sense to the story and is familiar enough to not just be in name only.  A few that come to mind are the Golden and Silver Age Flash and Green Lantern along with Marvel Comics' 616 Universe and Ultimate Marvel. Strike a balance or have a very good reason for the changes, otherwise we'd just have dull, endless game adaptions XP

Agreed. I would not write Shadow as the same character he was in the games because it wouldn't work in a Satam type of universe. With that said however, I would adapt quite a bit of his game form into the series because his main character traits I believe are interchangeable considering his motivations. He wants to honor Maria's wish of protecting the planet as a way to honor her memory. Well, I see no reason why he wouldn't want to do that in a Satam environment. Heck, if anything, I think that would be even more personal to him considering the one who's trying to destroy the planet and its inhabitants is the very grandson of the man who helped give birth to his creation. It would give Shadow alot of conflicting emotions because I do believe he was loyal to Gerald. Well, maybe not at first, but I would believe with Maria's help, he learned to trust him as well as her. So, he'd have to make a choice of trying to honor Maria's wishes while not wanting to destroy the last of her family since she and Julian were related no doubt. It could lead to some very interesting character development for Shadow if you ask me.

But that's just me. One thing is for sure. I would NEVER show him working for G.U.N as in the games. It made no sense back then and it still makes no sense to this day. I have no idea why SEGA wrote him like that because it goes completely against his character after everything they did to him. Could I see him helping Rouge on their behalf? Ok, sure, but I believe he'd do it more for her sake than theirs. Shadow I believe would be loyal to Rouge once he saw her stand by him like she did in the games.

As for Infinite, at first I thought he might have been an interesting henchman for Robotnik consider his usage of the Phantom Ruby and what it all can do, but considering his extreme prejudice of Mobians, I don't believe Julian would even bother with it. If there was a Phantom Ruby in the series, he'd just harness the power himself in a machine like Eggamn did near the end of the game.

So yea, unless he was given a completely different role, Infinite would not work in the series. Maybe he'd form one of the criminal gangs of the series like the Destructix? *shrug*

 

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3. No, no because it takes away what makes Sonic unique as the "Fastest Thing Alive", it cheapens his abilities yet I can see where your coming from. It would provide with an interesting premise as him not being as fast as he thought. But at the same time it would seem as if this would "pair up" the two together which would just be boring. I wouldn't mind a lady who could keep up with Sonic but then again I suppose Blaze did so in Sonic Rush even though she isn't as fast as Sonic. Just seems like a good idea as a first thought until you really start to think it over.

True, it would sorta cheapen Sonic as a character if there was a female as fast as him. Although, to be fair, Sonic is not technically the fastest thing alive anyway, in terms of fictional characters in general at least, so I don't see why he needs that as part of his character since there's plenty of other things to make him unique. He can still spin dash, cut robots in two with his spikes and even power with gems.

As for pairing up, I'm not sure if you meant that romantically or fighting together on the battlefield, but I'll cover both just to be safe. If I was going to have a female with super speed or almost as fast as Sonic as you put it, they would not like Sonic in that regard. You're right. Sonic dating a female who's exactly like him in terms of abilities would be dull and boring. That's why I'd make them more of a friendly rival if anything, someone who likes to trash talk Sonic the same as he does others and they have some interesting back and forth banter. Maybe even getting under each other's fur too.

If you meant pairing up as in fighting together, I don't see why it couldn't work if it was done within reason. Ok, sure, it'd be tricky to balance out since two super speed Mobians would be even more of a headache for Robotnik to fight, but I do believe it could be done. I would even up the ante by having Robotnik having even more formidable machines to fight, thus counter-balancing this premise by making it so the robots they face are alot harder than before.

Plus, as much as I despise Sonic Forces, I do admit the Double Boost concept is intriguing. The problem was it was horribly executed and just thrown in without too much thought and effort as to how it works and why. Same for the whole Power Stone thing with Sonic and Sally too I hate to admit. It was cool, but it was never explained how Sally was able to do that. Sure, you could argue it was the stones' power, but it would have been nice to be given some backstory on what exactly those stones can and cannot do.

I personally think as long as a female with super speed was written properly and given a role that would not diminish Sonic's too much wouldn't be that bad.  Sonic can still be the cool super speedy hedgehog we all know and love. He'd just finally have someone he could compete with about it since I do think it's a shame we rarely see Sonic race against someone who could possibly be a match for him.

That's just my take about it anyway.
 

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5. Oh there are ways you could explain it, I can think of several really but there are ways in order for it to make sense I can assure you that. ;)
But really I don't see it as much of a plothole, I know Robotnik thrives on pollution but he's still part human in a lot of ways, kinda hard to go outside in smog if he dropped a nuke on them. I don't care how much of Robotnik is metallic radiation would not be good for his presumably poor complexion. :P 

Well, to be frank, I wasn't suggesting Robotnik drop a nuke on Knothole. More like him just invading the Great Forest and burning it to the ground or as he did in the pilot and erode the trees away with acid. To be honest, even I have a hard time fully trying to explain why he didn't for over 10 years. I try to come up with an explanation he was tracking down one of the characters since they had some DNA in their body he wanted to extract in order to further his Empire's power, but even I admit I don't think he'd waste 10 years on them. MAYBE 1-2 depending on how persistent he is, but no more than 3 since Robotnik I think eventually would give it up if his search turned up empty time and time again.

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  • 1 month later...

Anyway, here's a few more questions I'd like people's opinion on.

1: How would you write the old guard of the Freedom Fighter's last stand against Robotnik before either being killed, captured/roboticized or even forced to flee and hide after he takes over? And when I say old guard, I mean characters like Sonic's parents, Tails' parents, The Wolf Pack, etc?

2: How would you write Snively's character overall? Would you make him about as evil as his uncle, but maybe more cunning in some regards? Would you make him a bit of a sympathetic villain expounding on his past, explaining why he did what he did when joining Julian in helping further his regime? Or would you do something different with him entirely?

3: How would write Sonic and the young Freedom Fighters being trained from young kids to the teenage soldiers they became later on?

4: Do you think the Dark Sonic concept would work in a Satam universe? If not, explain why. If yes, please explain why and how would you show Sonic using it in the series.

5: Do you think the character Dr. Ellidy from the comic could fit in the series? Or if so, would you keep his backstory the same as the comic or change it to something else?

 

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On 6/7/2018 at 6:28 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

 

Anyway, here's a few more questions I'd like people's opinion on.

1: How would you write the old guard of the Freedom Fighter's last stand against Robotnik before either being killed, captured/roboticized or even forced to flee and hide after he takes over? And when I say old guard, I mean characters like Sonic's parents, Tails' parents, The Wolf Pack, etc?

 

 I am not sure if question one is exclusively relevant to Satam, it leans also towards (maybe even more so) to the Archie canon. I would recommend adding this to the WWYDD thread there in order to get more Archie specific answers. But, to translate this to specifically Satam, I would say there has to be more groups out there fighting Robotnik. He even specifically mentions an attempt to quell an insurgent group in one episode in season one. Also, even in Time Line A of Satam (before Blast to the Past), Rosie helped raise the kids before tragically being napped during a Swatbot patrol’s incursion into the forest. In B, she is still with the FF to this day.  Perhaps Satam time line A is more bleak, Robotnik is more level and uninterrupted in his primary conquest. Time line B has more distractions and disruptions for the Coupe, during Blast to The Past, and thus probably lead to the survival of more potential resistance. Robotnik seems to be less level headed after Sonic went back in time as well. The reality of Sonic being able to time-travel would eventually set in and eat at Julian psychologically the same way it would for Sarah Conner after Terminator One. Any day, an assassin or upsurper can appear in your timeline at one of your most vulnerable moments. To Robotnik that day is one of great uncertainty, to Sonic it’s as well mapped as yesterday’s front page news. I would think this would all change his approach at war to be more attritional and conservative in his tactics against others, while really splurging resources and focus to take down Sonic when the moment rises. No matter what, there is an opportunity to answer this question in two totally different ways depending on which timeline we are referring too. 

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14 hours ago, TheRedStranger said:

 I am not sure if question one is exclusively relevant to Satam, it leans also towards (maybe even more so) to the Archie canon. I would recommend adding this to the WWYDD thread there in order to get more Archie specific answers. But, to translate this to specifically Satam, I would say there has to be more groups out there fighting Robotnik. He even specifically mentions an attempt to quell an insurgent group in one episode in season one. Also, even in Time Line A of Satam (before Blast to the Past), Rosie helped raise the kids before tragically being napped during a Swatbot patrol’s incursion into the forest. In B, she is still with the FF to this day.  Perhaps Satam time line A is more bleak, Robotnik is more level and uninterrupted in his primary conquest. Time line B has more distractions and disruptions for the Coupe, during Blast to The Past, and thus probably lead to the survival of more potential resistance. Robotnik seems to be less level headed after Sonic went back in time as well. The reality of Sonic being able to time-travel would eventually set in and eat at Julian psychologically the same way it would for Sarah Conner after Terminator One. Any day, an assassin or upsurper can appear in your timeline at one of your most vulnerable moments. To Robotnik that day is one of great uncertainty, to Sonic it’s as well mapped as yesterday’s front page news. I would think this would all change his approach at war to be more attritional and conservative in his tactics against others, while really splurging resources and focus to take down Sonic when the moment rises. No matter what, there is an opportunity to answer this question in two totally different ways depending on which timeline we are referring too. 

I suppose you're right. My mistake. I guess I like the idea of them being in the Satam universe too, but perhaps added later in the series. I'll add this question for the Archie Sonic thread too.

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

I guess I'll answer my own questions since no one else has, starting with the first two. The others I'll answer later.

#1: How I would write the old guard of the Freedom Fighters' last stand against Robotnik is have Sonic's parents, Tails' parents, the Wolf Pack, Ari's Freedom Fighter group and the Freedom Fighter Commandos along with Hope Kintobor(at age 18 instead of 14) storm Robotnik's base to load a virus onto his network, attempting to fry it to destroy his slave program from the roboticized Mobians he's got under his control as well neutralize his robotic forces completely. However, as we all know, it wouldn't go according to plan and sadly fail.

Robotnik and his forces would put up a valiant defense, making the Freedom Fighters here go for broke. Battles would range from fighting numerous Swatbots, Mega Muck machines and so on. The main battles of course would range from Amadeus Prower fighting Julian Robotnik in his main lair as a distraction for the others to Hope Kintobor having a one on one mech battle to the death with Snively in one of the main Swatbot factories after failing to get him to defect to her side. Jules and Bernadette meanwhile would sneak into the main network, having the virus on hand to fry it. Unfortunately, they would not succeed as Amadeus was unable to hold off Julian, ending up fatally wounded during their battle. Julian would then surround them with his Swatbots, attempting to take them prisoner. Having a super EMP grenade on hand however, Jules tries to use it as a means to bluff his way out to get Robotnik to back off. Again, it doesn't work, as Robotnik calls his bluff, daring him to set it off since he knows it would kill them in the process due to how powerful of an electronic magic pulse it possesses. 

Not willing to die for the cause, Jules backs off his threat and now attempts to bargain with Robotnik, proposing he'll let him do whatever he wants to him and serve Julian in exchange for letting his wife go free and allowing him to keep his free will. Having new experimental tech he wants to try out when it comes to roboticization, Julian agrees, allowing Bernadette to leave. Robotnik then roboticizes Jules, but disables the slave program as promised, then weaponizing his robotic body with his experimental tech to be even more formidable of a machine. For the moment, it appears Julian has kept his word. He soon activates Jules new body, as he now sees what Robotnik has done to him. Despite being horrified at what Robotnik did to him, he takes comfort in the fact his wife is safe, or so he thinks...

Jules sadly finds out Robotnik only partially kept his word. He allowed his wife to leave Robotropolis, but then takes her prisoner after she tries to get help from the others near the Great Forest. Deeply enraged at being double crossed, he attempts to kill him with his new robotic body, only to find out Robotnik planned for such a move, having a force field around him to prevent such a thing. Robotnik then pulls out a device and cripples Jules' robotic body, bringing him to his knees, even laughing in his face about foolishly trusting him to keep a deal. And with that, Julian turns back on his slave program and orders him to roboticize his wife, who was currently in the room, watching the whole thing unfold.

After learning of what happened to Jules, Bernadette and Amadeus, the other Freedom Fighters retreat, realizing their siege failed and would only end up suffering the same fate if they continue. As for Hope and Snively's mech battle, it turned into a stalemate for the 3/4 of it, with both of them using their mechs to damage the other, but to little avail. Not wanting to continue it, Snively places his mech in a strategic spot in one of Robotnik's molten steel factories, begging Hope to call off the fight and form a truce. Hope however refuses,  wanting to punish Snively severely for his betrayal of their family. Hope then attempts a powerful attack from her mech to finish off Snively, but Snively is ready for it, countering it to perfection. Instead, Hope tragically takes the full brunt of it, causing her mech to crash into one of the factories' machines, causing it explode in a ball of fire, damaging it severely as well as breaking both of Hope's legs in the process. Even Hope's mech catches fire with no way for her to escape the flames by herself.

Snively meanwhile tries to help her out, but Hope threatens to blow up her mech on him if he tries, showing how deeply she hates him even now and would rather die than live by his hand. Deeply heartbroken, Snively concedes to Hope's wishes and leaves her to burn in the mech, even hearing it explode after leaving the factory. Fearing the worst, Snively doesn't even bother to check since he can't bear to see her charred remains. Even now, Snively still cared deeply about Hope and only wanted to have her rule by his side after overthrowing Julian. 

I know this description was long, but I thought the final stand should go into more detail since I like to think the old guard of the Freedom Fighters took one last shot at bringing down Robotnik, but tragically failed. Yea, this could also qualify as part of the Archie continuity, but me personally, I like to think of these characters more as Satam than Archie ones since I really did not care for their Archie portrayal that much.

#2: Me personally, I like to write Snively as a more sympathetic character and villain, someone who deep down didn't start off on the wrong path, but ended up being corrupted by Julian, like in a similar manner Anakin was by Palpatine and then ended up deeply regretting it after seeing Julian's true colors, wanting to break free.  I would also write him more cunning as well compared to Julian, being someone who could be greatly underestimated as a threat. Also, unlike Julian, Snively would have a heart for his fellow Overlander brethren and family, wanting to ally with them and make them the superior race of Mobius, either enslaving the Mobian race or killing them in mass genocide to reduce their power and numbers.

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  • 1 month later...
11 hours ago, SonicSatamX93 said:

I'll answer my own questions from before eventually, but I'd like to ask one more thing before I do for now.

#1: How would write the series finale and how would you do the final battle between Sonic and Robotnik with everything on the line?

[I will throw my two cents in soon on these. First I got to apply my portfolio for the BFA for painting and printmaking today at college. Wish me luck!]

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22 hours ago, SonicSatamX93 said:

I'll answer my own questions from before eventually, but I'd like to ask one more thing before I do for now.

#1: How would write the series finale and how would you do the final battle between Sonic and Robotnik with everything on the line?

For a series like SatAM, it would have to be an "All or Nothing" situation where whomever wins decides the fate of the world. Doomsday was essentially that.

Maybe something that ties in their stamina/physical condition as they fight: the more Sonic loses in the fight, the more everyone gets Roboticized. More Robotnik loses, the more people that are freed. When one side Robotnik is defeated, everyone is free from the roboticization and Robotropolis begins to heal

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