What Would You Do Differently?

Mike Arcade · October 9, 2018

On 6/7/2018 at 6:28 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Anyway, here's a few more questions I'd like people's opinion on.

1: How would you write the old guard of the Freedom Fighter's last stand against Robotnik before either being killed, captured/roboticized or even forced to flee and hide after he takes over? And when I say old guard, I mean characters like Sonic's parents, Tails' parents, The Wolf Pack, etc?

2: How would you write Snively's character overall? Would you make him about as evil as his uncle, but maybe more cunning in some regards? Would you make him a bit of a sympathetic villain expounding on his past, explaining why he did what he did when joining Julian in helping further his regime? Or would you do something different with him entirely?

3: How would write Sonic and the young Freedom Fighters being trained from young kids to the teenage soldiers they became later on?

4: Do you think the Dark Sonic concept would work in a Satam universe? If not, explain why. If yes, please explain why and how would you show Sonic using it in the series.

5: Do you think the character Dr. Ellidy from the comic could fit in the series? Or if so, would you keep his backstory the same as the comic or change it to something else?

1. It really depends on how you want to go with them, are they gonna be Robian Workers of some sort? Will they be used as a bargaining chip? If they are going to be used as hostages then why weren't they used as such in the first place? I mean having them already dead would be an easy way out, but not everyone should be alive either. You got to pick and choose which characters are gonna be around and why, if you can bring out some good stories because they are still alive in some way than hey bring them in eventually, otherwise if you can't exactly justify or think of a way to have them usable in a story then you'd have to consider that they are dead or just gone in some sort of way. Otherwise you have characters who aren't doing anything outside of the main characters interacting with them, which isn't a good reason to keep them around if they can't do anything substantial in the world.

2. Making Snively sympathetic is a very dicey concept, I mean if anything he should be far more pathetic than sympathetic. No matter how "sympathetic" he is doesn't change the fact he willingly joined his Uncle to go on a metaphorical and literal genocide against an entire race. You can have some sympathetic qualities for the character, but I'd say he's almost as reprehensible as Robotnik. Here's the thing, I've seen some fans give Snively give him some slack for his horrible actions, there are fans out there that make him into a Draco in Leather Pants. As in they tend to shoe away a lot of the horrible things he has done because they think his character can be fixed or almost blameless "because his Uncle forced him to do these things". Yeah no that's some of the biggest load of crap I've seen regarding fans, granted a lot of villains in fiction get this sort of treatment, doesn't make it any less right. Snivley is the Starscream to Robotnik's Megatron, however you want to handle the character is fine. But I'd recommend you don't forget that he's a Monster and his actions cannot and should not be swept under the rug.

3. There's a lot you could do with this one, I mean it could be kinda like something along The Goonies in a sense. Although you also gotta factor who teaches the Kid Freedom Fighters things that they will be useful later on when they are old enough to go out on missions. You could make an entire arc regarding what they learn and how to apply it in the world fighting against Robotnik. So ask yourself this, who teaches our future heroes and why at such a young age? What is this character's motivations? Will this character end up seeing these kids become the Heroes they are meant to? There is so much potential on how this could be done, it could make for a great story that's for sure.

4. It can work, I mean it's one of the simplest concepts that can work out in a Sonic Story. Thing is though is how is it done in the context of the world and what makes it interesting in the story? The best example for a "Dark Sonic" form has got to be Sonic The Comic's Super Sonic, when Sonic transformed he became a psychotic monster who only wanted to destroy, as awesome as that was for the time you should make it more interesting than just that. Just consider the how and why of it and where it could be applied to the story.

5. Ehh, he could work I guess. I mean his backstory was interesting and tragic, but his character was rather flat if you ask me. You could adapt him but at least change things up so that it isn't predictable, backgrounds for the characters should never be completely the same as in another story. Heck TMNT and all it's incarnations has similar backgrounds but a lot of it are different through each show and comic, just keep in mind that while you are bringing in a character you may like, don't make them an exact copy of who they were. Although you could make a whole new character instead that replaces the character too, either way is fine but whether or not you bring them in I'd highly suggest you change them up quite a bit. A story isn't exciting if you can predict how it'll go beat for beat, so either you make the journey for the character's arc and background very interesting or change it up enough so readers aren't sure how this'll play out. If you can hook the reader on either of these points in a good way you're gold.

On 10/8/2018 at 2:54 AM, SonicSatamX93 said:

I'll answer my own questions from before eventually, but I'd like to ask one more thing before I do for now.

#1: How would write the series finale and how would you do the final battle between Sonic and Robotnik with everything on the line?

1. @Wulfsbane said it right, it's gotta be an all or nothing battle that'll decide the fate of Robotropolis, the whole world really. But when they win what'll be lost? Who makes it out alive in the end? What happens after? The ending shouldn't be a complete downer, but it shouldn't be a super happy ending either. It should be an ending where people have scars (be that mental and/or physical) that will take time to heal and can rebuild the future they had once lost.

TheRedStranger · October 11, 2018

@SonicSatamX93

1: How would you write the old guard of the Freedom Fighter's last stand against Robotnik before either being killed, captured/roboticized or even forced to flee and hide after he takes over? And when I say old guard, I mean characters like Sonic's parents, Tails' parents, The Wolf Pack, etc?

As a Writer, I would say give them a problem, a conflict, they resolved to make the current FF and Knothole's culture possible. It would make sense that they would have a lot of political and ideological baggage to overcome to create unity in the face of Robotnik. These flawed characters happened to overcome those internal conflicts, unlike the rest of Mobian society, to overcome the Coupe. As for the Wolf Pack, perhaps overcoming xenophobia and isolationism, then overcoming the tragedy of loosing their chief, having Lupe take charge in a divisive power-struggle. Make each proto-FF fighter go through a crucible that helps make their respective sons and daughters able to stand high on a firm foundation. Their individual and unique sacrifices should lead to a promise, a hope, that makes the current FF what it is today. They are in black pitch of hopelessness, with demons without and within. Show or at least imply that the stakes were brutal, akin to Walking Dead, post-apocalyptic. Yet they give their all to make the spark that gives us the more black-against-white, adventure-against-evil tone of Satam. They are basically the Rouge One to Star Wars: A New Hope.

I would love to see how you would apply this idea above to the individual characters respectively.

2: How would you write Snively's character overall? Would you make him about as evil as his uncle, but maybe more cunning in some regards? Would you make him a bit of a sympathetic villain expounding on his past, explaining why he did what he did when joining Julian in helping further his regime? Or would you do something different with him entirely?

It's in his name - make him fight more on the FF's terms. He's cloak and dagger, and back-stabby. He's the Cardassian to Robotnik's Klingon. Snively does not have the charisma to take over the room and overtly overpower you. He's introspective and introverted. He uses more soft-power techniques. Where Robotnik is the arrogant genius blind to his follies, perhaps Snively's overanalytical and back-biting nature leads to his downfall. One has the power to plow through intrigue with force of charisma and overt power plays, one can spin a web of intrigue, yet can easily get caught up in that web.

SonicSatamX93 · October 12, 2018

Well, seeing the others answer these, I'll answer them myself and give some feedback about their replies later.

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#3: How would write Sonic and the young Freedom Fighters being trained from young kids to the teenage soldiers they became later on?

Like in my current Sonic Satam X fanfic, I'd have them trained by a former solider of the Acorn Army to teach them discipline, teach them how to do missions, how to be stealthy, and most importantly, harness their special abilities, whether Sonic's speed, Sally's intelligence, Antoine being a swordsman, Rotor learning how to build machines and such. I'd even have it so he'd teach them how to be a team and learn how to work together to slowly, but surely, bring down Robotnik's Empire.

I don't have all the details in mind for this, but basically, I feel for now, this will suffice.

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#4: Do you think the Dark Sonic concept would work in a Satam universe? If not, explain why. If yes, please explain why and how would you show Sonic using it in the series.

Actually, I do. I find it a fascinating concept of Sonic's character and identity. I mean, when you think about it, if Sonic can absorb the positive energy of a Chaos Emerald, then that means he's clearly capable of absorbing the negative too. Plus, the Sonic X concept of it actually feels like something Sonic would actually do. Granted, I do think it should have been something alot more horrific to push Sonic over the edge, but nevertheless, I still like the fact it shows someone with as good of a heart as Sonic, he can lose it and become something dark and scary.

To me, I see Dark Sonic as something buried deep within Sonic, whether a type of form or being that goes against everything he stands for, but it's there nonetheless, and if he's pushed too far, it will cause him to snap to the point he'll go berserk. As for how I would utilize this, I see it as a two fold manner. For starters, as much as I hated the recent Archie Sonic comics, I did find the idea of Scourge mocking him by saying, "One bad day and you'll be just like me." actually a great concept. I actually love the idea of Sonic being on the edge like that, like all it would take is one big push in the wrong direction and Sonic would lose it entirely. Secondly, I think it should only come out of him as I mentioned before, due to something very horrific, like someone he cares about is severely injured and could possibly die and it eats at him to the point he can't take it anymore and turns into Dark Sonic out of pure anger.

One idea I had in mind is that Robotnik finds out about this Dark form of Sonic's and realizes he could use it to his advantage by pushing Sonic over the edge by severely wounding someone, whether Sally, Tails or someone of that caliber and then attempts to let it consume him to the point he's beyond the point of no return, thus corrupting his arch nemesis by his own anger to now become the very thing Sonic swore to destroy. Granted, I do plan to have one of Sonic's friends, most likely Sally to snap him out of it before it's too late, telling him what this will do to him if he doesn't stop giving in to the negative energy of the emeralds. Once Sonic realizes he's becoming just like Scourge by tapping into Dark Sonic, he finally stops himself cold before the damage is permanent.

Not perfect I admit, but I do feel this would be a good concept of Dark Sonic.

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#5: Do you think the character Dr. Ellidy from the comic could fit in the series? Or if so, would you keep his backstory the same as the comic or change it to something else?

Actually, I do. It's one of the reasons why I asked. Me personally, I do like the idea of him making a special being to help the Freedom Fighters like he did in the comics. My only complaint with it was they tried to retcon Nicole's backstory with it though. I know they had to because of Penders, but I just found this a lame way tor retell Nicole's story. Sure, Nicole's original comic origins were flawed, but I felt it sufficed more than just being, "Dr Ellidy's" dead daughter in an A.I form." Had it been a new character entirely and had been something cool like maybe a high tech robot with the conscious of his deceased daughter, then that would have worked alot better, but that's just me.

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#6: How would write the series finale and how would you do the final battle between Sonic and Robotnik with everything on the line?

I do like that concept Wulfsbane had in mind about Sonic and Robotnik's final battle having repercussions to either side, depending on who was attacked. Although, to be completely honest, I'm not sure how that could be pulled off properly. Maybe a time limit where if Sonic doesn't destroy Robotnik right away and free them, his friends will end up roboticized slaves could work, but that's if there's no deroboticizer at this point, which at this point I'm still debating whether or not one should be done by now or after the war is over.

Anyway, if I was going to do it, I'd have it so it's a one on one battle where Sonic's friends are blocked off from intervening and are forced to watch. Sure, them being possibly roboticized while the battle is going on is good, but honestly, I just feel Robotnik could just do that later and for now have them watch in despair as he beats the living crap out of Sonic using a new body he made for himself from a roboticizer powered by the Chaos Emeralds. Robotnik does enjoy the suffering of others, so I think he'd savor seeing Sonic's friends looking on helpless while their beloved friend and hero is pummeled to the brink of death by his own hand.

As for how I'd remedy the situation, I'd have it so one of them is able to disable the force field for a mere 5 seconds, allowing Shadow to join the battle and helps Sonic destroy Robotnik for good. Normally, I would think a one on one battle to the death would be the proper way to go, but considering Shadow's history with the Robotnik family, I just feel it's fitting that Julian's demise is caused by his own grandfather's ultimate creation. Robotnik would still be a tough one to put down, so it's not like Shadow joining the battle automatically puts the odds in their favor. Plus, this way, Shadow gets to keep his promise to Maria by finally ridding the world of Robotnik's tyranny, thus allowing humanity and Mobians alike to be given the chance to be happy again.

But that's just my take on this. If anyone has any feedback about what I wrote, I'd like to see it.

SonicSatamX93 · October 28, 2018

I'll respond to some of the answers given to give some of my feedback about it.

On 10/9/2018 at 5:51 AM, Mike Arcade said:

1. It really depends on how you want to go with them, are they gonna be Robian Workers of some sort? Will they be used as a bargaining chip? If they are going to be used as hostages then why weren't they used as such in the first place? I mean having them already dead would be an easy way out, but not everyone should be alive either. You got to pick and choose which characters are gonna be around and why, if you can bring out some good stories because they are still alive in some way than hey bring them in eventually, otherwise if you can't exactly justify or think of a way to have them usable in a story then you'd have to consider that they are dead or just gone in some sort of way. Otherwise you have characters who aren't doing anything outside of the main characters interacting with them, which isn't a good reason to keep them around if they can't do anything substantial in the world.

That's exactly how I plan to go about it. Some will be killed as I mentioned before in their final stand against Robotnik, such as Amadeus Prower, some will end up roboticized, such as Sonic's parents, and some will go into hiding, such as the Wolf Pack, Rosemary Prower and others. As for hostages, Robotnik won't initially do so since he plans to use them as a weapon first, but once Sonic and his comrades start to get stronger and become a serious threat to him and his empire, that's when he'll resort to using his parents as a hostage to get Sonic and Sally to back off or threaten to kill them if they don't comply.

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2. Making Snively sympathetic is a very dicey concept, I mean if anything he should be far more pathetic than sympathetic. No matter how "sympathetic" he is doesn't change the fact he willingly joined his Uncle to go on a metaphorical and literal genocide against an entire race. You can have some sympathetic qualities for the character, but I'd say he's almost as reprehensible as Robotnik. Here's the thing, I've seen some fans give Snively give him some slack for his horrible actions, there are fans out there that make him into a Draco in Leather Pants. As in they tend to shoe away a lot of the horrible things he has done because they think his character can be fixed or almost blameless "because his Uncle forced him to do these things". Yeah no that's some of the biggest load of crap I've seen regarding fans, granted a lot of villains in fiction get this sort of treatment, doesn't make it any less right. Snivley is the Starscream to Robotnik's Megatron, however you want to handle the character is fine. But I'd recommend you don't forget that he's a Monster and his actions cannot and should not be swept under the rug.

I assure you I don't plan on making Snively sympathetic to that degree. Yes, you're right, he is a monster, and he's done some terrible things that he can't blame his Uncle for them entirely. Still, I do think showing some of his humanity and that he does have a heart in some areas I think would make him a better character overall and one fans could slightly sympathize with. It's one of the reasons why I compared him a bit to Anakin Skywalker. He too was a monster, but he did some have good in him. No, Snively's not going to get redeemed like him in the end, but at the same time, I do feel to show a contrast between him and Julian, Snively should have moments where we see he wasn't always this horrible of a person, but was sadly corrupted by Julian and got drunk on the power when helping him take over and now is lost within the darkness of his heart.

In his own twisted mindset, I believe Snively feels he would be a great ruler if he could overthrow Julian, set up an empire with his Overlander brethren and have a utopia, just like Anakin thought he could as well after planning to overthrow Palpatine, but both of them would only be deceiving themselves and would be just as bad of a ruler, if not in some cases, even worse.. It's why I have Hope try to kill him during the old guard of the Freedom Fighter's last stand. She can sense the evil in him and see even now he is unrepentant for what he has done with Julian, making him beyond saving in her eyes.

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5. Ehh, he could work I guess. I mean his backstory was interesting and tragic, but his character was rather flat if you ask me. You could adapt him but at least change things up so that it isn't predictable, backgrounds for the characters should never be completely the same as in another story. Heck TMNT and all it's incarnations has similar backgrounds but a lot of it are different through each show and comic, just keep in mind that while you are bringing in a character you may like, don't make them an exact copy of who they were. Although you could make a whole new character instead that replaces the character too, either way is fine but whether or not you bring them in I'd highly suggest you change them up quite a bit. A story isn't exciting if you can predict how it'll go beat for beat, so either you make the journey for the character's arc and background very interesting or change it up enough so readers aren't sure how this'll play out. If you can hook the reader on either of these points in a good way you're gold.

I don't plan on making Dr. Ellidy an exact copy of the way he was in comic. Sure, there will be similarities, but he will have different motivations for why he did what he did other than how he was shown in the comic. That and I plan to have him build something different other than just his daughter in A.I form. I do like that concept, but I just hated how it was merely done just to give Nicole a new backstory. It just felt really forced IMHO.

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1. @Wulfsbane said it right, it's gotta be an all or nothing battle that'll decide the fate of Robotropolis, the whole world really. But when they win what'll be lost? Who makes it out alive in the end? What happens after? The ending shouldn't be a complete downer, but it shouldn't be a super happy ending either. It should be an ending where people have scars (be that mental and/or physical) that will take time to heal and can rebuild the future they had once lost.

Oh, I assure you the final battle will leave quite a few scars on Sonic and his comrades. They will not get out of this unscathed. I plan to have this final battle really test them mentally and emotionally, but they will preserve and destroy Robotnik and his regime once and for all.

On 10/10/2018 at 7:15 PM, TheRedStranger said:

As a Writer, I would say give them a problem, a conflict, they resolved to make the current FF and Knothole's culture possible. It would make sense that they would have a lot of political and ideological baggage to overcome to create unity in the face of Robotnik. These flawed characters happened to overcome those internal conflicts, unlike the rest of Mobian society, to overcome the Coupe. As for the Wolf Pack, perhaps overcoming xenophobia and isolationism, then overcoming the tragedy of loosing their chief, having Lupe take charge in a divisive power-struggle. Make each proto-FF fighter go through a crucible that helps make their respective sons and daughters able to stand high on a firm foundation. Their individual and unique sacrifices should lead to a promise, a hope, that makes the current FF what it is today. They are in black pitch of hopelessness, with demons without and within. Show or at least imply that the stakes were brutal, akin to Walking Dead, post-apocalyptic. Yet they give their all to make the spark that gives us the more black-against-white, adventure-against-evil tone of Satam. They are basically the Rouge One to Star Wars: A New Hope.

I would love to see how you would apply this idea above to the individual characters respectively.

Interesting ideas, but I do agree with you. I do plan on making the old guard Freedom Fighter's last stand a tragic one. They will come together despite their differences about how to take down Robotnik and give it one last shot to take him down, but sadly fail. And after they do, those who remain must learn not to give in to the despair of giving up since they know they cannot afford to stop fighting for their freedom, even if it looks bleak and completely hopeless.

Funny you mention Rouge One, but me personally, I see them more as the Revenge of the Sith to a New Hope. Like the old guard of the Jedi who try to take down Palpatine and fail, so will they fail to take down Robotnik, but their children will be able to finish what their parents could not.

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It's in his name - make him fight more on the FF's terms. He's cloak and dagger, and back-stabby. He's the Cardassian to Robotnik's Klingon. Snively does not have the charisma to take over the room and overtly overpower you. He's introspective and introverted. He uses more soft-power techniques. Where Robotnik is the arrogant genius blind to his follies, perhaps Snively's overanalytical and back-biting nature leads to his downfall. One has the power to plow through intrigue with force of charisma and overt power plays, one can spin a web of intrigue, yet can easily get caught up in that web.

It seems we both have the same thought process about Snively. That's exactly how I see him too. He is not the genius his Uncle is, but unlike Julian, Snively is alot more cunning and crafty about his plans, dotting all the I's and crossing all the T's, and yet in a sense that will ultimately be his undoing since he'll overthink things and end up getting caught in his own web of plans he thought were fool proof.

SonicSatamX93 · February 4, 2019

On 6/3/2016 at 11:21 PM, TheRedStranger said:

How would you do the Coupe differently?

I never did answer this question, so I guess I'll give my thoughts about it.

Me personally, I would change the Coupe to more of a distraction from some rebel Overlanders trying to invade the city secretly set up by Robotnik and then once the Mobians try to use the Swatbots and other technology from Julian to fend them off, Robotnik would flip the switch and the Swatbots and his robotic forces would completely turn on them, destroying their defenses and military from within and setting the city ablaze with King Max watching from the palace helplessly as Robotnik and his army storms the castle.

I see it a bit like Order 66 from Revenge of the Sith where the Clone troopers turned on the Jedi to kill them, but in this case, the Swatbots and other robots turn on King Max's army, wiping nearly all of them out, as well as capturing any civilians caught in the middle of it.

While I do like the idea of subtlety from Julian when showing his evil prowess, I don't see why he would here. He has no reason to hide his true colors anymore now that he has King Max and the Mobian race right where he wants them: caught in a trap with nowhere to run or hide.

SonicSatamX93 · March 25, 2019

Seeing this thread pretty dead as of late, here's a few more questions I'd like some feedback on.

#1: How would you do the backstory of Naugus, whether it be his relationship with Julian, helping him take over the planet, getting betrayed by him when exploring the Void and so on?

#2: Do you believe the E-Series robot Gamma could fit in the Satam universe? If no, explain why and if yes, how would you modify his role and appearance to do so?

#3: How would you portray Tails when it came to his prowess of building mechs and airplanes/jets? Also, do you think the X-Tornado could work in the Satam universe as one of his inventions?

Mike Arcade · August 20, 2019

On 3/24/2019 at 10:16 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Seeing this thread pretty dead as of late, here's a few more questions I'd like some feedback on.

#1: How would you do the backstory of Naugus, whether it be his relationship with Julian, helping him take over the planet, getting betrayed by him when exploring the Void and so on?

#2: Do you believe the E-Series robot Gamma could fit in the Satam universe? If no, explain why and if yes, how would you modify his role and appearance to do so?

#3: How would you portray Tails when it came to his prowess of building mechs and airplanes/jets? Also, do you think the X-Tornado could work in the Satam universe as one of his inventions?

It has been far too quiet, how about we all get back in the groove of things everyone.

1. I'd prefer to know exactly what Naugus is first. No, him being a dumb fusion of three Mobians or a literal Troll doesn't count. For all we know Julian saught after him, it'd be interesting to see two opposites (Magic and Technology) met and worked together for a brief amount of time.

2. Maybe, perhaps as a special set of SWATbots? You could do almost anything with the E-Series really.

3. He's mentored by Rotor and Chuck? Honestly he shouldn't be supposedly super genius smart like he is in the games. Mainly because that takes away traits from both Chuck and Rotor, especially Rotor. Really, Rotor really got stilted in Sonic as a whole, it's a darn shame.

Also I really don't care for the X-Tornado, it's basically a Jet Fighter (which are cool) and having that as early as he got it in Sonic X felt cheap.

SonicSatamX93 · September 8, 2019

On 8/20/2019 at 4:33 PM, Mike Arcade said:

1. I'd prefer to know exactly what Naugus is first. No, him being a dumb fusion of three Mobians or a literal Troll doesn't count. For all we know Julian saught after him, it'd be interesting to see two opposites (Magic and Technology) met and worked together for a brief amount of time.

Yea, I seriously HATE that three fusions bullcrap of Naugus. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention it's way too easy to use as plot convenience as Archie Sonic did. Naugus should be seen as just a super powerful wizard, but was defeated and exiled years past and is now trying to get his full power back. That's where Julian would come in. He would offer Naugus a partnership deal where if he helps him take over the planet with his evil magic, he'll turn over the planet to his control soon after in exchange for getting to be his right hand man, though never intending to honor that last part of the deal.

The way I see Julian and Naugus' relationship is similar to the one of Plagueis and Sidious' from Star Wars. Julian would help Naugus as long as it was beneficial to him. Once it wasn't, he would cut him off permanently whether through exile or death. Oddly enough, the fact Naugus was out for revenge on Julian that intently shows me he took his betrayal very personally, that unlike Julian, he is a wizard of his word and would honor their deal as long as Julian did as well.

Heck, I think he formed a partnership with Snively soon after more for the intent of getting Julian out of the picture than taking over the planet. Granted, I think he would also do it because he would see unlike Julian, Snively is alot more loyal of an individual in comparison and more worthy of being his right hand man. That's just my thoughts on it at least.

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2. Maybe, perhaps as a special set of SWATbots? You could do almost anything with the E-Series really.

Good point, though I would call them R-Series robots and have them look alot more intimidating and powerful because quite a few of the E-Series robots were just way too silly looking.

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3. He's mentored by Rotor and Chuck? Honestly he shouldn't be supposedly super genius smart like he is in the games. Mainly because that takes away traits from both Chuck and Rotor, especially Rotor. Really, Rotor really got stilted in Sonic as a whole, it's a darn shame.

Also I really don't care for the X-Tornado, it's basically a Jet Fighter (which are cool) and having that as early as he got it in Sonic X felt cheap.

I don't see anything wrong with Tails being super smart, but I think it should be shown something he was earned or was gifted this ability as he progressed as a character, not right from the get go. That's one thing I always hated about Tails' portrayals. He's automatically shown as a super genius, yet we've never see HOW he got that way in the first place. A decent explanation would've helped.

Ok, I'll agree with you Tails got the X-Tornado way too early in the series. It really should have been something near the later part, like near the end of Season 2 or at the beginning of Season 3. But yea, I just always felt like Tails' original Tornado models were very lacking in terms of power and versatility. Ok, I liked the Tornado 2 I admit, but it never went any further than that. Plus, considering Robotnik has such high tech aircrafts, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense Tails wouldn't up his game as well. I'm not saying he has to make a whole fleet of X-Tornado like jets, but just having something more useful than a mere biplane would've been nice.

MoKat · September 10, 2019

On 9/7/2019 at 8:40 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Yea, I seriously HATE that three fusions bullcrap of Naugus. It doesn't make any sense. Not to mention it's way too easy to use as plot convenience as Archie Sonic did.

*nods* Stupid stuff like that is one of many reasons I did not care much for Karl Bollers' run on Archie StH 😛

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The way I see Julian and Naugus' relationship is similar to the one of Plagueis and Sidious' from Star Wars. Julian would help Naugus as long as it was beneficial to him. Once it wasn't, he would cut him off permanently whether through exile or death. Oddly enough, the fact Naugus was out for revenge on Julian that intently shows me he took his betrayal very personally, that unlike Julian, he is a wizard of his word and would honor their deal as long as Julian did as well.

Heck, I think he formed a partnership with Snively soon after more for the intent of getting Julian out of the picture than taking over the planet

I see their relationship in a similar light. Heh, Naugus seemed to really enjoy shifting Julian's head into random things in "The Void"

SonicSatamX93 · September 20, 2019

On 9/10/2019 at 12:16 PM, MoKat said:

*nods* Stupid stuff like that is one of many reasons I did not care much for Karl Bollers' run on Archie StH 😛

Karl Bollers to me was a mixed bag type of writer. Some things I liked, something I didn't care for and some things I outright hated.

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I see their relationship in a similar light. Heh, Naugus seemed to really enjoy shifting Julian's head into random things in "The Void"

Indeed, although to be honest, I now see that as the kid friendly version of Naugus torturing Julian. I think if we really knew what the writers originally had in mind for Naugus torturing Julian, it would have been A LOT darker in tone. Not that I didn't find Naugus turning Julian's head into a pig funny, but... I think Naugus had more sinister ideas in mind for Julian to punish him. I can't see Naugus just wanting to shape-shift Julian's head for that long of time for his amusement and not getting bored of it quickly.

TheRedStranger · August 7, 2020

On 3/24/2019 at 10:16 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

2: Do you believe the E-Series robot Gamma could fit in the Satam universe? If no, explain why and if yes, how would you modify his role and appearance to do so?

I have to be mum on this one for creative project reasons. I would argue that a continuation could greatly benefit from introducing a version of them. Perhaps even could be machines that were considered double edged swords which Robotnik sat on for awhile, perhaps due to their advanced programing.

Yes, I think you could do that quite easily. You could even make Gamma a foil to AI's in the series already like Nichole, and perhaps his deviation, with an arc ending similarly with his game version, could inspire Nichole to pursue her own 'humanity.'

On 3/24/2019 at 10:16 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

#3: How would you portray Tails when it came to his prowess of building mechs and airplanes/jets? Also, do you think the X-Tornado could work in the Satam universe as one of his inventions?

I feel like we were building up to that in the end of the show to some extent. I see Tails from Satam being more a software genius than a mechanic, that would be Rotor's sphere. You would have to be careful on how you grow his position in the FF without obsolescing Rotor as the Mechanic and Sally as the Tactician. His flight makes him stand out and perhaps you could make his prodigy rely a lot on that, but if you play it wrong - you make him more useful than Rotor. If he can do what he can as well as be an ace pilot, he shatters his relevance and strains Sally's in future several plots. I think this is something we should discuss in detail. @Mike Arcade

Mike Arcade · August 9, 2020

On 8/7/2020 at 1:28 AM, TheRedStranger said:

You would have to be careful on how you grow his position in the FF without obsolescing Rotor as the Mechanic and Sally as the Tactician. His flight makes him stand out and perhaps you could make his prodigy rely a lot on that, but if you play it wrong - you make him more useful than Rotor.

And that's why Rotor was so pushed to the wayside after Season 1. He was in Season 2, but for odd reasons (and possible dislike from a producer if I recall) was glossed over. After the 50 Issue mark (and probably before that), Rotor was made to be completely irrelevant with Uncle Chuck now a mainstay in Knothole, then we got Nate Morgan, and Tommy Turtle, and then Tails. They treated technology as "basically" all the same thing, despite that not being true at all. They didn't even bother to kill him off like how they tried to with Sally, he just lingered in the background forever. You could argue they tried to rectify that with Rotor after the Reboot, that wasn't really Rotor as he changed the most alongside Sally compared to his original self. Second only to Porker Lewis, Rotor is the most ignored character in this entire series. Come to think of it, that brings up a got question...

How would you handle Rotor Walrus as a character and how would you keep him relevant?

SonicSatamX93 · August 24, 2020

On 8/6/2020 at 10:28 PM, TheRedStranger said:

I have to be mum on this one for creative project reasons. I would argue that a continuation could greatly benefit from introducing a version of them. Perhaps even could be machines that were considered double edged swords which Robotnik sat on for awhile, perhaps due to their advanced programming.

Yes, I think you could do that quite easily. You could even make Gamma a foil to AI's in the series already like Nichole, and perhaps his deviation, with an arc ending similarly with his game version, could inspire Nichole to pursue her own 'humanity.'

Interesting idea. Not sure how I would have Nicole pursue her own humanity though if I'm being honest, especially since in my story, I follow Ben Hurst's idea of Nicole basically being Sally's childhood friend that was abducted by Robotnik and converted her very conscience into a super computer. I'd be curious to see what you would have in mind for Nicole to have her feel and be more than just an A.I.

As for the creation of Gamma, I mostly went with the concept of Robotnik stealing the data of a robot from another scientist and making his own version of it, thus Gamma was created from it as a result. Considering Julian stole Sir Charles' data on the roboticizer and made his own version of it, I figured it'd be in character for him to do it again, especially if the design and schematics were very high tech and superior to his own current machines.

On 8/6/2020 at 10:28 PM, TheRedStranger said:

I feel like we were building up to that in the end of the show to some extent. I see Tails from Satam being more a software genius than a mechanic, that would be Rotor's sphere. You would have to be careful on how you grow his position in the FF without obsolescing Rotor as the Mechanic and Sally as the Tactician. His flight makes him stand out and perhaps you could make his prodigy rely a lot on that, but if you play it wrong - you make him more useful than Rotor. If he can do what he can as well as be an ace pilot, he shatters his relevance and strains Sally's in future several plots. I think this is something we should discuss in detail.

That is a good point now that I think about it. I suppose in that case, I'd limit Tails' Freedom Fighter skills to being a master pilot of aircrafts and mechs, as well as having very strong combat skills. That way, Rotor still can be the mechanic and tech guy while Sally still is the main strategist. Granted, I don't see anything wrong with Tails coming up with plans every now and then. Sure, it should be a rarity, but I think if done in small doses, it would work just fine.

I mean, Season 2 had an episode of him coming up the plan of attack and I thought it worked pretty well overall.

On 8/9/2020 at 1:48 PM, Mike Arcade said:

How would you handle Rotor Walrus as a character and how would you keep him relevant?

Honestly, I don't know for sure if I'm being completely honest. I mean, I'd keep him relevant by making it so he's able to fix almost anything, but that would be about it. I certainly wouldn't have him wear a nano suit like the comics. No offense to anyone who liked that, but I found him using that completely stupid. Rotor isn't the fighting type and never will be. Now I'd be cool with him piloting a mech to use in battle since that would keep him in character, but not using some super suit. He isn't Iron Man. That nano suit should have been given to someone else, not Rotor.

Edited August 24, 2020 by SonicSatamX93

MoKat · August 24, 2020

7 hours ago, SonicSatamX93 said:

No offense to anyone who liked that, but I found him using that completely stupid. Rotor isn't the fighting type and never will be. Now I'd be cool with him piloting a mech to use in battle since that would keep him in character, but not using some super suit. He isn't Iron Man. That nano suit should have been given to someone else, not Rotor.

I for one did not like it >.<

I agree with you on both points; Rotor isn't a fighter (so don't try to use him like one *glares in the general direction of Bollers*) & the suit should have gone to someone else, if it were to be used at all.

TheRedStranger · August 26, 2020

That idea really misses the mark on what Rotor is suppose to be. Rotor is a foil to Sonic the way that Sally is. One is improvisational but brash thinker, the other is stiff but much more planned. They mentally balance each other out. Rotor is a foil to Sonic’s bravery and forward action. Rotor solves his problems through technology and is your rearguard, your support man. With that dynamic in mind - I could see Tails doing something cool-and-crazy with a suit like that in a one off (thought he really does not need it). But Rotor is more going to be your Oracle, your Jarvis in that situation. To me Tails is the mid point between Sonic and Rotor. Forward but not as flexible and slippery as Sonic. Rotor only comes to the forefront in times of complex technical problems.

We should consider also the diversity of occupations in the sciences and how they apply to operational tactics. Think of this for the Freedom Fighters in the frame of an MOS in the military. If you want Rotor and Tails not to step on each other’s character as he grows up into a capable freedom fighter, then consider what path exactly he would take. Look up a list of MOSes and think about which ones for Rotor over Tails when it comes to the FF as a military operation.

Mike Arcade · September 3, 2020

Rotor has got to be the most difficult character for me to articulate about, because the only amount of screen time he ever got was during Season 1 of SatAM. From what I remember, apparently a producer over at NBC didn't like Rotor and that was why he took such a backseat during Season 2. This could only just be a rumor, but regardless after he got pushed to the background the character never recovered.

His treatment in Archie Sonic was abysmal, his only plot point was Rotor trying to get his family back from Robotnik's mind control alongside his entire race (for some reason, they were never roboticized...for reasons never explained). Other than building or making stuff in the background with other smart characters (which was their fate, as all technology was the same apparently), he was given nothing in the possible future of XYL, then was replaced by a completely different character in the Reboot.

He was Rotor in name only, with a played out trope of a bad father who preferred his son be a warrior instead of being a tech wiz. Which is funny because said bad dad ended up working for Eggman, while Rotor ended up being a Battle Mechanic as @TheRedStranger would put it. Someone that was at the frontlines, but still built stuff. Which was honestly even worse than the Nano Suit Rotor donned before the Reboot.

Here's the dilemma, in the comics we either had Rotor so far pushed into the background that he almost became a non-character, until he put on an Iron Man-like suit. In the other case, they had him as a completely different character who fought on the front lines like an action hero...yet still can do everything he did before. While Rotor in Season 2 did do important background things, it was only just that...in the background, much like Archie Sonic.

What people tend to forget is how his character actually was, during Season 1. Rotor had two episodes featuring him. The first being Harmonic Sonic, where he went up to the upper atmosphere with Sonic to take down a Spy Satellite. He used his wits to help Sonic not only take the whole thing down, but also make sure it didn't land on any habitable land to cause further damage on the planet. His name was even cheered alongside Sonic's! In the episode Sub-Sonic, he tagged along with Sonic, Sal, and Antoine to figure out an issue with polluted plant life. He even saved his friends and help figure out what was causing the problem. He brought working electricity to Knothole, and in other episodes during Season 1 tagged along on missions. While he did do a lot of background work, he still went out with his friends to bring down Robotnik. Our cool Walrus here even showed a bit of a temper in wanting to bring down Robotnik at the mere sight of him. He was actually a very proactive character!

This is where I'm getting at here folks, Rotor can be a proactive character without just only staying in the background. He doesn't have to be an action hero, or even use a metal suit to be a hero, because Rotor is a Hero. Just like how Sonic's powers don't make him a Hero, it's what he does that defines him. I'm not saying Rotor should be a wimp, he is a character that can throw a fist, but he's not out to start a fight. However, being defensive doesn't mean just reacting either. He's a Main Freedom Fighter, just like Sally, Bunnie,and Antoine. Sadly, the comic writers and even the fans forgot about that.

Rotor is the most shafted character in the entire series, he ends up in the background with other obscure characters like Porker Lewis, Sharps the Parakeet, Joe Sushi, and Tux. But that shouldn't be the case, he's one of the core Freedom Fighters and deserves a real shot in the limelight. With everything I listed above, he's got a lot of potential in terms of character growth, plot, and arcs. But it's up to us to show everyone what he really had to offer, because everyone else failed him. So if you have a series your working on that is based in Mobius, give him a second glance. Because you may just find out what kind of hero he really is. :)

SonicSatamX93 · March 29, 2021

Might as well ask this to revive this thread.

What is your opinion of the Original Freedom Fighters from the Archie Sonic comic? Do you think they could have fit in the Satam universe as part of the series? And if they would need to be tweaked to fit, how would you do it?

For those who don't know who I'm referring to, here's a link to them:

https://archiesonic.fandom.com/wiki/Original_Freedom_Fighters

TheRedStranger · April 9, 2021

On 3/28/2021 at 10:48 PM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Might as well ask this to revive this thread.

What is your opinion of the Original Freedom Fighters from the Archie Sonic comic? Do you think they could have fit in the Satam universe as part of the series? And if they would need to be tweaked to fit, how would you do it?

For those who don't know who I'm referring to, here's a link to them:

https://archiesonic.fandom.com/wiki/Original_Freedom_Fighters

I am a bit of a soft Satam purist and not incredibly invested into Archie. But I do have one strong opinion, X. Bunnie and Antoine do not have any chemistry. In fact in season two we see she has some deep deep frustration with him. In the episode with the nasty hyenas, he comes off outright mean and condescending to Bunnie, betraying contempt, perhaps due to her station. His creepo kissy fascination with “My Princess” Sally and disdain of Bunnie reveals some possible snobby prejudice.

To keep to point, to fit in any relevant Satam context plots pertaining to their relationship would have to be given to someone else, or a major arc would be needed to transition him into something less well...classist?

@MoKat @Mike Arcade

What do you think?

@Akessel92

You have a lot of Archie under your belt, what about you? And @SonicSatamX93 question in general?

Wulfsbane · April 9, 2021

I think you missed the question entirely, Stranger. The Original Freedom Fighters in Archie were mentors to the group pre-Archie and were basically the ones before Sonic, Sally, & co. They were the ones who evacuated Mobotropolis and help found and build Knothole. The Original aren't the ones we know in SatAM

Could they fit in SatAM? I don't necessarily see why not as they did help evacuate Knothole, so they could have been either trusted people or perhaps those who saw the situation and rose to the occasion. The snake betraying them doesn't actually fit as much when you think about it as he could have easily given up the location of Knothole and the series would end before it actually began. I mean, we do believe Rosie might have had special training because of Blast to the Past and how she was sneaking around the bowels of the Castle trying to help so these guys could be in the same boat.

TheRedStranger · April 9, 2021

1 hour ago, Wulfsbane said:

The Original Freedom Fighters in Archie were mentors to the group pre-Archie and were basically the ones before Sonic, Sally, & co. They were the ones who evacuated Mobotropolis and help found and build Knothole. The Original aren't the ones we know in SatAM

Oh! I know what you are talking about now. I thought they went by a different moniker than “original” though. *Checks link*

To answer that, yes - they can easily fit. In fact, I believe any delving into the between area of Blast to The Past and Season One requires some form of series of mentors. Children just don’t learn how to hack, fight, and infiltrate, let alone sustain themselves and a hidden society all by their own. There are ten years worth of character and story here that Satam could have explored with more past-focused lore-heavy episodes. Here is the rub though, you basically have two timelines to work with. Sonic saved a key adult figure in Rosie, and that one life will eventually change everything via a butterfly effect. Other adults besides Rosie could have been saved by her information of Mobotropolis for example, or because she could manage resources, or provide a needed service like medical care. These mentors may be gone in Time Line A, but somehow be back somewhere in Timeline B somehow. Heck, even vice versa. With Satam’s forked time line, they have the opportunity to create a fifth dimensional story arc for characters, like in the movie Frequency or Back to The Future, ect. This adds a really fun wrinkle to Sonic and Sally’s character, given they could possibly remember both timelines, though they seemed shocked Rosie was back. I leave the fourth dimensional epistemology up to you all creatively. There is too much fun stuff to ignore this possibility, way too much.

As for their individual characters, they would need a more Satam coat of paint in affect. This means less on the nose arcs and subtext. Satam respected its audience enough to treat them as young emerging adults rather than mere children, most of the time. Any betrayal by Trey will be expected and comes off as boring. Everyone expects the “I'm a snake; it's totally in my nature” species trope from a Snake Mobian. It’s okay to have those tropes with orcs and corrupted monster races in a story, sure. But, seeing mobians “species” is more an ethnicity than an ancestral ontology, let’s flip the script sometimes to show their bad cultural flaws are not ubiquitously baked inside them all.

Trey seems to not have the military background that the others seem to have, especially Colonel Stripes. In real life, much unlike a lot of writing by left leaning artists like Penders, who subconsciously (and more consciously nowadays) bend their stories to a slight pro-federalism, government and bureaucracy types frankly do more objective and empirical evil, for example look at the anti-private-sector fascist and communist governments of the 20th century in our world. Stalin’s five year plans killed a lot more innocent people than a Ford Pinto or a Chipotle burrito afterall. I personally hate when “private agents” get crapped on and it’s a bad subtext all around implication wise to generalize villian tropes on the basis of career background. With all that said, I would recommend making Trey a more complex character, perhaps motivated by his own prosperity to some extent, but becomes a victim of Robotnik’s authoritarianism.

Simple surprise fix to do is reverse his arc. Maybe he starts out a nasty selfish hearted Objectivist, that learns his boss cornering the market through the coupe is bad for business. He hates dealing with the meddling current regime in his line of work, maybe demilitarization means legislation that will destroy his livelihood even after he did contract work for what he sees as the hypocritical and ungrateful royal family, much like a real PMC do with governments that disavow them during the coming next election cycle. He has debts, Han Solo style debts from Jabba the Hutt style debtors. Now all he earned for himself is in the chopping block because of a narrow vote or monarchial dictate. To him, Acorn his already a dictator, better to have one that lets you eat and keeps you out of a very painful default in some heavy debts. And so, he is an early enactor of the coupe.

I like the idea that Trey then could not be roboticized even after the coupe, due to the Roboticizor not being tested on many reptiles. He tried to trick him in one, and it failed. So Buttnik casually lied about the incident, and had to use him in a different way until he figured it all out, and used the anomaly as a way to tweak his methods. You could even have Trey as having medical needs that Robotnik promised to help with (and Acorn’s policies made unaffordable). He experiments on him in a way that helps give us legionization or badniks.

Long story short, having him start a bounty Hunter to Robotnik and betraying him for better prospects in a world without his centralized control. Ironically you can turn over his betrayal in a dramatic way. And gives you a socio-philosophical spring board to talk about a lot political ideas in a what that is much more nuanced than a lot of those writers that follow into that Hollywood tradition of making the corporate guy (you know the people who made the phone or PC you are probably reading this on) the absolutely evil monopoly guy, while still critiquing and cross-paring more morally debatable right-wing perspectives like pure, hard objectivism. Don’t expect that from extreme partisan self-caricatures like Penders though.

I will share my thoughts on the others, but I want to tennis ball Trey around because he needs the most sculpting into something fresh, and perhaps ironically has the most potential.

MoKat · April 9, 2021

15 hours ago, Wulfsbane said:

The Original Freedom Fighters in Archie were mentors to the group pre-Archie and were basically the ones before Sonic, Sally, & co. They were the ones who evacuated Mobotropolis and help found and build Knothole

*nods* I vaguely remember that. Do you remember which issue they were in?

{Edit: nevermind. I should have payed better attention while going through the wiki Their story ran in StH #142 & 143}

SonicSatamX93 · April 13, 2021

On 4/8/2021 at 8:10 PM, TheRedStranger said:

I am a bit of a soft Satam purist and not incredibly invested into Archie. But I do have one strong opinion, X. Bunnie and Antoine do not have any chemistry. In fact in season two we see she has some deep deep frustration with him. In the episode with the nasty hyenas, he comes off outright mean and condescending to Bunnie, betraying contempt, perhaps due to her station. His creepo kissy fascination with “My Princess” Sally and disdain of Bunnie reveals some possible snobby prejudice.

Yea, that is one thing I can full heartedly agree with about Sonic Satam compared to Archie Sonic. Bunnie showed no interest in Antoine whatsoever, neither did he show any interest in her for that matter either. Now do I think they could have ended up falling in love in Satam? I would honestly have to say... it's possible. If Antoine had matured and become a better individual in later Satam seasons as he did in Archie Sonic, it's possible Bunnie might have seen him in a different light and fallen for him. Who knows? It's possible Antoine by that time would have given up on trying to win Sally over seeing it wasn't happening and given Bunnie a shot instead. Who can honestly say it would never happen? We'll sadly never know since the series ended too early.

On 4/8/2021 at 9:12 PM, TheRedStranger said:

Children just don’t learn how to hack, fight, and infiltrate, let alone sustain themselves and a hidden society all by their own. There are ten years worth of character and story here that Satam could have explored with more past-focused lore-heavy episodes.

EXACTLY. That's something Satam seriously lacked depth on. We never saw HOW they became the elite freedom fighters they are in the show. Sure, we saw one episode with an older character named Cat who might have trained them, but again, the show never went into detail about it. That is one thing I have to give Sonic Underground over this show. They at least made an attempt to show how Sonic and his siblings learned to fight and take care of themselves.

That is one reason why I brought up the Original Freedom Fighters because after learning about them, they seemed perfect for this role. It's really a shame they didn't get more development because they had so much potential as part of the Sonic series.

Quote

Here is the rub though, you basically have two timelines to work with. Sonic saved a key adult figure in Rosie, and that one life will eventually change everything via a butterfly effect. Other adults besides Rosie could have been saved by her information of Mobotropolis for example, or because she could manage resources, or provide a needed service like medical care. These mentors may be gone in Time Line A, but somehow be back somewhere in Timeline B somehow. Heck, even vice versa. With Satam’s forked time line, they have the opportunity to create a fifth dimensional story arc for characters, like in the movie Frequency or Back to The Future, ect. This adds a really fun wrinkle to Sonic and Sally’s character, given they could possibly remember both timelines, though they seemed shocked Rosie was back. I leave the fourth dimensional epistemology up to you all creatively. There is too much fun stuff to ignore this possibility, way too much.

While what you say is true, I've actually grown less fond of the multi timelines as well as the Blast to the Past episodes in the series over time. I'm not saying they're bad, they're just... pointless for the most part considering they really didn't change much. Sure, they saved Rosie and all, but the fact she never returned made that whole adventure moot. Yes, I know it wasn't Ben Hurst's fault on that. He wanted to have her in later episodes, but the idiots he worked for wouldn't let him. Why? I'll never know. I don't see what their problem was with Rosie being added. I mean, they were ok adding Dulcy without any introduction, so it made no sense at all.

Quote

As for their individual characters, they would need a more Satam coat of paint in affect. This means less on the nose arcs and subtext. Satam respected its audience enough to treat them as young emerging adults rather than mere children, most of the time.

I full heartedly agree. I found it dumb they were rescuing Sonic at age seven. Seriously, Sonic had no business being there at that young of age. Granted, I started to have Sonic doing Freedom Fighters missions at the age of ten since the show pretty much acknowledged that, but ten is at least a little more understandable since Sonic is starting to develop as a Freedom Fighter and wants to get in there as soon as possible to punish Robotnik for all the crimes and pain he's caused him and those he cares about.

Quote

Any betrayal by Trey will be expected and comes off as boring. Everyone expects the “I'm a snake; it's totally in my nature” species trope from a Snake Mobian. It’s okay to have those tropes with orcs and corrupted monster races in a story, sure. But, seeing mobians “species” is more an ethnicity than an ancestral ontology, let’s flip the script sometimes to show their bad cultural flaws are not ubiquitously baked inside them all.

Trey seems to not have the military background that the others seem to have, especially Colonel Stripes. In real life, much unlike a lot of writing by left leaning artists like Penders, who subconsciously (and more consciously nowadays) bend their stories to a slight pro-federalism, government and bureaucracy types frankly do more objective and empirical evil, for example look at the anti-private-sector fascist and communist governments of the 20th century in our world. Stalin’s five year plans killed a lot more innocent people than a Ford Pinto or a Chipotle burrito afterall. I personally hate when “private agents” get crapped on and it’s a bad subtext all around implication wise to generalize villian tropes on the basis of career background. With all that said, I would recommend making Trey a more complex character, perhaps motivated by his own prosperity to some extent, but becomes a victim of Robotnik’s authoritarianism.

Simple surprise fix to do is reverse his arc. Maybe he starts out a nasty selfish hearted Objectivist, that learns his boss cornering the market through the coupe is bad for business. He hates dealing with the meddling current regime in his line of work, maybe demilitarization means legislation that will destroy his livelihood even after he did contract work for what he sees as the hypocritical and ungrateful royal family, much like a real PMC do with governments that disavow them during the coming next election cycle. He has debts, Han Solo style debts from Jabba the Hutt style debtors. Now all he earned for himself is in the chopping block because of a narrow vote or monarchial dictate. To him, Acorn his already a dictator, better to have one that lets you eat and keeps you out of a very painful default in some heavy debts. And so, he is an early enactor of the coupe.

I like the idea that Trey then could not be roboticized even after the coupe, due to the Roboticizor not being tested on many reptiles. He tried to trick him in one, and it failed. So Buttnik casually lied about the incident, and had to use him in a different way until he figured it all out, and used the anomaly as a way to tweak his methods. You could even have Trey as having medical needs that Robotnik promised to help with (and Acorn’s policies made unaffordable). He experiments on him in a way that helps give us legionization or badniks.

Long story short, having him start a bounty Hunter to Robotnik and betraying him for better prospects in a world without his centralized control. Ironically you can turn over his betrayal in a dramatic way. And gives you a socio-philosophical spring board to talk about a lot political ideas in a what that is much more nuanced than a lot of those writers that follow into that Hollywood tradition of making the corporate guy (you know the people who made the phone or PC you are probably reading this on) the absolutely evil monopoly guy, while still critiquing and cross-paring more morally debatable right-wing perspectives like pure, hard objectivism. Don’t expect that from extreme partisan self-caricatures like Penders though.

I again full heartedly agree with your assessment here about Trey. His character is extremely predictable, thus would need a complete overhaul to work. I've even gone so far as to remove him as part of the group entirely because as you said, he doesn't even look like he's got any military training at all compared to the others. If he was to have any connections to the team, they would be short lived, like maybe he started as part of the group, but due to his unethical methods, the other members kicked him out and went their separate ways.

As for his betrayal of them, I think I'd keep it in there since I do believe it can still work, but it would have to tweaked where he did it more out of desperation compared to getting a bounty. That way, he could come off more sympathetically for his actions, especially if say like he reconciled with them before this happened as a way to make it more sad. For example, I would have it so he'd be torn between helping them or saving someone like his wife and/or child since I could see Robotnik abducting them and using them as a way to make Trey do his bidding or he would kill them if he refused.

I know that would still be a little predictable, but at least in that case, it would justify Trey's actions alot more if he was fleshed out for why he did what he did. Just having him betray his team for the money without explaining why he felt the need to do that was very shallow of a reason. Yea, I know money is a powerful motivator and all, but still... it's way too cliched of a reason.

SonicSatamX93 · April 15, 2021

Another question I've been meaning to ask is if you would have the Original Freedom Fighters in the Satam universe, what changes would you make for them to fit in it?

Mike Arcade · August 3, 2021

On 4/15/2021 at 10:32 AM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Another question I've been meaning to ask is if you would have the Original Freedom Fighters in the Satam universe, what changes would you make for them to fit in it?

Hey dude, this response has been a long time coming.

So considering how the OG FFers in Archie Sonic were, it could be simple enough to port them over wholesale. The artist of that story arc had a good fit for the look of the characters...except for Trey Scales.

He's the main blunt of changes I'd make, as in give him legs so he doesn't look like a Lamia from Mythology. Just find that having Mobians born with no legs just a bizarre design choice that effected only two other characters.

"But Snakes aren't suppose to have legs." Some may say, by that logic Rotor shouldn't walk at all and Knuckles needs to look like an actual Echidna. Look, if he can at least wrap himself around someone like a Snake and poison someone, then he's a Snake. Actually, he'd probably look a lot cooler that way.

Another is to have him not be the Traitor, because anyone with common sense (and/or basic biblical know-how) would think initially that he'd be a turncoat. Having a clever red harring could really jump at the audience. "Who should it be then?" If you want to have a traitor at all, it's up to you.

Bull Bones, Spot Long, Sir Peckers, and lastly Colonel Tig Stripes all look like cool characters and you wouldn't have to change too much...other than some better names for most of them. I mean Sir Peckers, really? Owls are awesome though, and on that note Spot is the only Giraffe Mobian...ever seen. Missed opportunity to see what others of his ilk are like. Honestly, Colonel Stripes has the best name out of all of them, except his first name anyway.

So yeah, guess that's how I'd handle them in SatAM.

@SonicSatamX93 @TheRedStranger @ByTor, Prince of Ro’den @MoKat Any thoughts?

MoKat · August 4, 2021

19 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

"But Snakes aren't suppose to have legs." Some may say, by that logic Rotor shouldn't walk at all and Knuckles needs to look like an actual Echidna. Look, if he can at least wrap himself around someone like a Snake and poison someone, then he's a Snake. Actually, he'd probably look a lot cooler that way.

And those people who would say that are probably the same people who forget that we are talking about Mobians (anthropomorphic characters), not actual animals that you find on Earth. 🙄

19 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

Another is to have him not be the Traitor, because anyone with common sense (and/or basic biblical know-how) would think initially that he'd be a turncoat. Having a clever red harring could really jump at the audience. "Who should it be then?" If you want to have a traitor at all, it's up to you.

I like that idea.

19 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

...some better names for most of them. I mean Sir Peckers, really?

Ugh! >.<

Yeah, definitely. Somebody with a dirty mind could read too much into a name like that

Mike Arcade · September 4, 2021

Okay so, been thinking about this one for awhile regarding SatAM. This is regarding Game Adaptions, only a few elements of the Games actually ended up in SatAM. Aside from Sonic, Tails, Robotnik, and Rings, we also had the Floating Island and Time Stones, albiet in a much different context. It makes me wonder if a story adaption for the Games could fit well in the context of SatAM, which brings me to this question.

Which Game or Games would be the Best/Worst fit for a SatAM adaption and why?

SonicSatamX93 · October 9, 2021

On 9/4/2021 at 11:46 AM, Mike Arcade said:

Okay so, been thinking about this one for awhile regarding SatAM. This is regarding Game Adaptions, only a few elements of the Games actually ended up in SatAM. Aside from Sonic, Tails, Robotnik, and Rings, we also had the Floating Island and Time Stones, albiet in a much different context. It makes me wonder if a story adaption for the Games could fit well in the context of SatAM, which brings me to this question.

Which Game or Games would be the Best/Worst fit for a SatAM adaption and why?

Best: Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 easily, maybe even Sonic 06 and Sonic Forces to a certain extent. Sure, there would be have to be some changes to the story and universe for it to fit, but the Satam cast and its elements would fit pretty well in these type of games.

Heck, I'm just going to say Sonic 06 and Sonic Forces would've been a hundred times better had it involved them instead of Elise and Classic Sonic.

Worst: Sonic Boom ones. Enough said.

SonicSatamX93 · November 7, 2021

Here's another couple of questions I'd like some feedback on

1: Do you think the Great War from the Archie Series would fit in the Satam universe as part of its prequel story? If so, how would you write it?

2: How would you show Robotnik scheming to take over the world with Naugus?

3: Do you believe Snively's family from the Archie series would fit in the Satam universe? And when I say family, I mean his mother, father and sister. If so, how would you write them as part of the series?

Mike Arcade · February 13, 2022

On 11/7/2021 at 9:07 AM, SonicSatamX93 said:

Here's another couple of questions I'd like some feedback on

1: Do you think the Great War from the Archie Series would fit in the Satam universe as part of its prequel story? If so, how would you write it?

2: How would you show Robotnik scheming to take over the world with Naugus?

3: Do you believe Snively's family from the Archie series would fit in the Satam universe? And when I say family, I mean his mother, father and sister. If so, how would you write them as part of the series?

After a long absence @SonicSatamX93 it's about time someone answered these questions.

1. Regarding SatAM, in Blast to the Past Part 1, there IS a Great War referenced by King Acorn. Hence why Julian is going to be the head of the Ministry of Science after helping them win the War. So that in of itself is from the original show. The only difference is the context and details of what the Great War was about and who the Acorn Kingdom fought. We know what it was like in Archie Sonic regarding the Overlanders and later retcons regarding allies and foes, but that's about it. SatAM left it very open ended on the what, who, and why.

There were a lot of problems on how the events which lead to the Great War in Archie Sonic, so regarding how I'd write it, I wouldn't be constrained to make a 1-to-1 copy of what happened in the comics. I'd have it that the Acorn Kingdom actually used guns for one, because a modern society that doesn't use them might as well have a sign on their front door that read "open season". Other than that, I'd just recommend to take the comic's Great War in broad strokes. Make it your own thing and how it predates the events of Robotnik's Coup and the Freedom Fighters.

2. They are quite contradictory in terms of methods, Robotnik using technology and Naugus being a Wizard. For that matter, in SatAM at least, we are never told that he's working to overthrow the King with Robotnik. All we know was that he worked with him in checking out The Void, and that's it. Honestly, there's a lot of wiggle room in interpreting him as a villain, or even an Anti-Villain. We do know that he would end up working with Snively in Season 3, but otherwise his motives for working with Robotnik, at least with The Void, and what other motivations he had are up in the air. I must stress that SatAM is NOT Archie Sonic, and vice versa. It's a common misconception that has been interpreted for far too long.

3. It's funny you mention that, as originally Robotnik and Snively were originally going to be from the 23rd Century, and were going to end up in the far future...that being Mobius. So ergo, they wouldn't have any family left. But for the question, I would say that at the very least you HAVE to make Robotnik's Brother of all people interesting. He was a literal one note character that got punked and roboticized barely an issue in. No idea what you could do for his Wife, but Hope does have a lot of potential. Although, it does work really well for her in being an analog to Maria for Shadow in the comic. But having a smart, Overlander ally could be really cool.

All in all, it'd be simple to put them in, but if they have any sort of purpose could be kinda tricky. Especially regarding Snivley's character.

SonicSatamX93 · July 5, 2022

On 2/13/2022 at 2:26 PM, Mike Arcade said:

After a long absence @SonicSatamX93 it's about time someone answered these questions.

1. Regarding SatAM, in Blast to the Past Part 1, there IS a Great War referenced by King Acorn. Hence why Julian is going to be the head of the Ministry of Science after helping them win the War. So that in of itself is from the original show. The only difference is the context and details of what the Great War was about and who the Acorn Kingdom fought. We know what it was like in Archie Sonic regarding the Overlanders and later retcons regarding allies and foes, but that's about it. SatAM left it very open ended on the what, who, and why.

There were a lot of problems on how the events which lead to the Great War in Archie Sonic, so regarding how I'd write it, I wouldn't be constrained to make a 1-to-1 copy of what happened in the comics. I'd have it that the Acorn Kingdom actually used guns for one, because a modern society that doesn't use them might as well have a sign on their front door that read "open season". Other than that, I'd just recommend to take the comic's Great War in broad strokes. Make it your own thing and how it predates the events of Robotnik's Coup and the Freedom Fighters.

This reply has been long overdue, but anyway...

I fully agree the Great War in the comics had tons of issues concerning its story, plot and so on. Granted, I do like how the comics at least tried to give some details about what happened, even if it wasn't very well written. Basically, my biggest issue with what started the Great War. I mean, over some target practice? Seriously? How lame can you get? That goes triple for the whole no guns law. Yea, because that makes sense when fighting a war with an enemy. -.-

The Great War should have been a result of something A LOT more personal than just some mere accident. Like for example, I'd have it started over the "death" of King Max's son Elias by some rogue Overlanders. Then in return, King Max kills Colin's wife in a retaliatory strike to even the score after Colin shows him no sympathy about it. It's not perfect I admit, but that would make 1000 times more sense for why the Overlanders and Mobians would fight a huge war over compared to what Archie Sonic did.

Quote

2. They are quite contradictory in terms of methods, Robotnik using technology and Naugus being a Wizard. For that matter, in SatAM at least, we are never told that he's working to overthrow the King with Robotnik. All we know was that he worked with him in checking out The Void, and that's it. Honestly, there's a lot of wiggle room in interpreting him as a villain, or even an Anti-Villain. We do know that he would end up working with Snively in Season 3, but otherwise his motives for working with Robotnik, at least with The Void, and what other motivations he had are up in the air.

I fully agree Robotnik and Naugus' way of doing things, they do contradict each other when it comes to their methods, so a partnership would appear to be counterproductive. Granted, the one thing it does have in its favor that outweighs its cons: A puppet master.

This is just a mere guess on my part, but why I believe Naugus and Robotnik entered a partnership was because both of them gave the other something they couldn't get alone. In Robotnik's case, having a wizard using his magic to sway the masses to his way of thinking. I hate the Mecha Sally Arc with a passion, but I must confess the part involving Naugus using his magic to sway the crowd against Nicole was a very fascinating concept for explaining how Julian could have done that as well when taking over Mobius.

In Naugus case, he gets a puppet to control and use to take over the planet where he would then seize power soon afterwards. This is also just a guess on my part, but I suspect before the Great War, Naugus was an exiled criminal on the planet, possibly for attempting a coup against their kingdom or something of that nature beforehand. Bottom line is, he couldn't take over the planet by himself because if he could have, he would have already done so.

Quote

I must stress that SatAM is NOT Archie Sonic, and vice versa. It's a common misconception that has been interpreted for far too long.

Oh I fully agree. They are two different universes. Granted, I do believe Satam did take some influence from the comics when making their own series. They are quite a few similarities between the two.

Quote

3. It's funny you mention that, as originally Robotnik and Snively were originally going to be from the 23rd Century, and were going to end up in the far future...that being Mobius. So ergo, they wouldn't have any family left. But for the question, I would say that at the very least you HAVE to make Robotnik's Brother of all people interesting. He was a literal one note character that got punked and roboticized barely an issue in. No idea what you could do for his Wife, but Hope does have a lot of potential. Although, it does work really well for her in being an analog to Maria for Shadow in the comic. But having a smart, Overlander ally could be really cool.

All in all, it'd be simple to put them in, but if they have any sort of purpose could be kinda tricky. Especially regarding Snivley's character.

Oh I agree Robotnik's brother should have been done better in the comics. I mean, he was the king of the Overlanders for crying out loud. He was so disrespected in the comics. Colin should have played a much larger part in the whole scheme of things when it came to the Great War and how it affected the current timeline. But yea, it's Archie. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised they screwed it up this badly.

Basically, I see Snively's family as a driving force for Snively when it comes to his character arc and his morality. In his father's case, I see him as someone who inadvertently pushed him towards being evil because I have a strong feeling his father would favor Hope over him due to the fact she would be superior when it came to skills, not to mention looks. I mean, the fact Snively is so small compared to most Overlanders would definitely have some affect on Snively father when it came to their relationship. He is a king after all, so having a son that looked like a midget would not exactly look good for his family's image.

It's for that reason why I believe Julian took advantage of the situation. He saw someone who was yearning for his father's love and respect, but never got it, so he would give it to Snively as a way to control him and eventually threaten him to do his bidding if he didn't want to get hurt or worse.

As for Snively's mom, I would have her be the exact opposite where she would love Snively just the way he is and try to be the one to help bring her husband and son together when it came to their differences. It's for that very reason why I have her end up tragically killed because had she lived, I don't believe Snively would have turned out as bad as he did. Basically something similar to how people have speculated if Qui-Gon Jinn had lived, Anakin wouldn't have become Darth Vader, but I digress.

I see his sister Hope in a similar way to her mother. She would love her brother and support him, only giving up on him when he turned evil and wasn't remorseful for his actions. Although, I do plan to have them reconcile later as a way for Snively to eventually come to his senses and turn on Julian in the end.

But that's just my take on this.

Edited July 12, 2022 by SonicSatamX93

Mike Arcade · July 10, 2022

@SonicSatamX93 Thank you for the Response dude, glad to read your thoughts on the matter.

I think your on point regarding the Robotnik/Naugus alliance, though I've always questioned if Naugus in SatAM would really want to rule the world. But really anything that we know as to why they teamed up is a mystery for the ages.

Got another one, thanks to @TheRedStranger. In Hooked on Sonics, Antoine managed to actually do something useful and reckless, that being he almost caught Robotnik! So here's one...

If Robotnik didn't have his Jet Boots, do you think Antoine would have succeeded in capturing Robotnik? Would he have failed anyway? Would he end up Roboticized?

MoKat · July 10, 2022

19 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

I've always questioned if Naugus in SatAM would really want to rule the world.

Same here. When he escaped from the Void, his agenda was to punish Robotnik, not world conquest.

On 2/13/2022 at 4:26 PM, Mike Arcade said:

2. They are quite contradictory in terms of methods, Robotnik using technology and Naugus being a Wizard. For that matter, in SatAM at least, we are never told that he's working to overthrow the King with Robotnik. All we know was that he worked with him in checking out The Void, and that's it. Honestly, there's a lot of wiggle room in interpreting him as a villain, or even an Anti-Villain. We do know that he would end up working with Snively in Season 3, but otherwise his motives for working with Robotnik, at least with The Void, and what other motivations he had are up in the air. I must stress that SatAM is NOT Archie Sonic, and vice versa. It's a common misconception that has been interpreted for far too long.

Totally agree with this point. Naugus & Snivley -do- have one thing in common though: they both hate Robotnik. An alliance between them makes way more sense than one between Naugus & Robotnik. But, yeah, the Archie Comics series borrowed heavily from SatAM, but it's not the same universe.

SonicSatamX93 · July 15, 2022

On 7/9/2022 at 6:24 PM, Mike Arcade said:

@SonicSatamX93 I think your on point regarding the Robotnik/Naugus alliance, though I've always questioned if Naugus in SatAM would really want to rule the world. But really anything that we know as to why they teamed up is a mystery for the ages.

While it is true it cannot be confirmed by anyone who worked on the SatAM cartoon that Naugus wanted to rule the world, considering what Ben Hurst had in mind with him for Season 3, I would wager more than likely he did. At the very least. he does now with Robotnik currently out of the picture and allying with Snively to keep the Freedom Fighters in line. I remember someone on the staff, possibly Ben Hurst mentioning something about Naugus using Sally's dad as a way to get Sally to obey him or something of that nature. Why else would Naugus do that unless he was after control of the planet? If he truly was just after getting revenge on Julian, then his alliance with Snively would have been temporary after it was accomplished. He would have no reason to help him any further, but as we saw at the end of Season 2, that wasn't the case. Their alliance and plans were only getting started.

Bottom line is, Naugus was going to be a major villain in the next season before it was cancelled. What extent and role he was going to play in it though is sadly speculation at best since it never got close to being made into production.

I wish the Satam writing staff had shared their thoughts more about what they had in mind for Season 3, even answering some questions about the show's mysteries concerning Naugus, Robotnik and Snively because I would have loved to know why they gave them that kind of backstory in the first place.

Edited July 15, 2022 by SonicSatamX93

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