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1 hour ago, Mike Arcade said:

So? It doesn't add anything substantial to the game like a new character or story, and since it's free anyway it's very easily ignored.

Mike is right, this is just a fun little thing for people who think it's funny.

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I liked him better when he was called Slade Wilson. [PG-13 violence.] Apparently he was gobbled up by The Heartless and puked up by Tim-Burton. XP Also. That design is just cl

I would recommend establishing more concrete character arcs and motivations for their characters as well as creating a consistent lore such is centered in so as to give a reason why such groups as thi

So much for playing as dulcy then

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Sonic Forces: Speed Battle. It's...okay.

Bit weird, though. The characters you play as are seemingly Phantom Ruby illusions - they appear in a swarm of red cubes and vanish in a swarm of red cubes at the end of the race. Perhaps Infinite and Eggman made them collect the lost prototypes and...got bored?

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  • 2 weeks later...

It only took about a month after the game came out. Granted, I'm not complaining that much, I mean Activision still hasn't released a full version of that Space Oddity cover they put in the Infinite Warfare trailer.

I must admit...I'm not that taken by it. I don't Inny has grown on me as much as I'd like.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/22/2017 at 11:50 AM, WarTraveller said:

The Grinch does not steal presents anymore Perry. Instead he puts a lock on each one and asks you to buy a key to open them individually. :P

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6 hours ago, TheRedStranger said:

The Grinch does not steal presents anymore Perry. Instead he puts a lock on each one and asks you to buy a key to open them individually. :P

Don't give them any ideas, Jordan. 

6 hours ago, Akessel92 said:

It will just be released as a cheap or free dlc in a few updates. 

Alex, you're sort of missing the point somewhat. Super Sonic, a staple feature since 1992, is now paid DLC, hiding a staple character behind a paywall. I wonder what OTHER games have done that recently... 

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I'm aware of this. Super Sonic in the past was locked behind the skill of players going through special stages, level completion or more recently red ring collections. 

 

Though ironically they didn't decide to give your  custom character the option of a super form. Probably is that reason they didn't have that included. 

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I oddly don't mind Super Sonic as DLC in this case, as the Chaos Emeralds play no role in the story at all strangely enough (and it's only a 1.99). I just find it funny that Super Sonic costs like a pack or two of gum. xD

On that note I don't like how Super Sonic plays in normal gameplay ever since he was brought back in Colors, unlike in the Classic Games you get no Extra Speed or Jump Height which really bugs me, I mean sure you have that air boost letting you stay airborne but still at this point he's only just invincibility with a timer and nothing else extra, it's disappointing if you ask me. :/

I can give Colors a pass for reintroducing Super Sonic but still. Considering just how cheap it is compared to other DLC practices over the years it could have been much worse, plus it adds nothing to the main story anyway.
 

8 hours ago, Akessel92 said:

I'm aware of this. Super Sonic in the past was locked behind the skill of players going through special stages, level completion or more recently red ring collections. 

 

Though ironically they didn't decide to give your  custom character the option of a super form. Probably is that reason they didn't have that included. 

Honestly I really wouldn't want the Avatar to have a Super Form, since the custom character is suppose to be an average joe turned freedom fighter basically having them go Super would defeat the whole point of the Avatar. You wouldn't be earning it for your character so it makes it something that he or she can just do for no good reason, at least Sonic has a history with the Emeralds. It just wouldn't make any sense and break what little narrative Forces has. 

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17 hours ago, WarTraveller said:

Alex, you're sort of missing the point somewhat. Super Sonic, a staple feature since 1992, is now paid DLC, hiding a staple character behind a paywall. I wonder what OTHER games have done that recently... 

Free til the end of January and SEGA is allowing you to download it before then even if you don't have the game.

And let's be honest: at this rate the people who are getting the game either already have it or are getting it for Christmas

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  • 1 month later...
8 minutes ago, Wulfsbane said:

Sega has confirmed that Sonic Forces has "preformed strongly" in their 3Q sales report

https://twitter.com/SSF1991/status/9613475844712570

 

My guess would be that Forces did somewhere between 750k to 1 million sales. I think a good portion of that 14 million was Persona 5... even though it came out in April.

How do you think Forces selling well will shape their future products design wise?

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Just now, TheRedStranger said:

How do you think Forces selling well will shape their future products design wise?

 

I know some people were concerned that because of the mixed/average reviews Forces got compared to Mania's near critical acclaim would cause Sega to refocus the 3D component again and change things. If Sega says it preformed strongly (and lying about numbers is considered bad practice, especially in Japanese business) I would imagine not much would change.

The 3D Sonic stages were some of the best parts of Forces, some minor tweaking and making levels longer, and they would be solid in that aspect. The main issue I had with Forces was the length of the game and it's story was inconsistent.

They have a survey up they asked from players to say what they like and disliked. Direct feedback from fans will be key and applying the feedback will be good.

They're on the right track in some aspects. I do feel confident going forward.

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7 minutes ago, Wulfsbane said:

 

I know some people were concerned that because of the mixed/average reviews Forces got compared to Mania's near critical acclaim would cause Sega to refocus the 3D component again and change things. If Sega says it preformed strongly (and lying about numbers is considered bad practice, especially in Japanese business) I would imagine not much would change.

The 3D Sonic stages were some of the best parts of Forces, some minor tweaking and making levels longer, and they would be solid in that aspect. The main issue I had with Forces was the length of the game and it's story was inconsistent.

They have a survey up they asked from players to say what they like and disliked. Direct feedback from fans will be key and applying the feedback will be good.

They're on the right track in some aspects. I do feel confident going forward.

I personally think the story had more plot holes and contrivances than artificial Swiss cheese. But to hear the 3D did well is a massive relief. I just think they need to back up the gameplay with an actual solid story to motivate play and explore. I like the idea of multiple endings alternatives and perspectives too like back in the day with Sonic CD up to Adventure. Sonic’s inprisonment for example did not make any sense at all.

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I apologise, but I personally thought the game was just awful. While the  Avatar system was really cool and it had some potential and a good handful of decent stages, the gameplay was inferior to Generations and the story was a joke. In Sonic Mania you had returning fan-favourite characters and surprise cameoes. In Forces? All the decent characters are illusions and the actual characters are butchered. And that's not even getting into the insult that was Super Sonic for 2 bucks. 

I understand this REALLY isn't what you want to hear from me, but I just hate this game. It was the type of game I wanted so much, but was just an insult. It feels lazy, cynical, cobbled together and I almost feel like it is laughing directly at fans who dared not get on their knees and pray to the God King Classic. 

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3 hours ago, WarTraveller said:

I apologise, but I personally thought the game was just awful. While the  Avatar system was really cool and it had some potential and a good handful of decent stages, the gameplay was inferior to Generations and the story was a joke. In Sonic Mania you had returning fan-favourite characters and surprise cameoes. In Forces? All the decent characters are illusions and the actual characters are butchered. And that's not even getting into the insult that was Super Sonic for 2 bucks. 

I understand this REALLY isn't what you want to hear from me, but I just hate this game. It was the type of game I wanted so much, but was just an insult. It feels lazy, cynical, cobbled together and I almost feel like it is laughing directly at fans who dared not get on their knees and pray to the God King Classic. 

But I wonder if that is the opinion of the fandom as a whole.  If it is commercially successful then why? And if it is not, then why are they number shifting, especially when it is taboo to do so? My concern is what legacy this game creates right now. I would personally recommend a constructive avenue for criticisms and don't want to butcher the game right here. That is why we make WWYD and Reconstruction threads. It looks like this game could use such a thread.

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19 minutes ago, TheRedStranger said:

But I wonder if that is the opinion of the fandom as a whole.  If it is commercially successful then why? And if it is not, then why are they number shifting, especially when it is taboo to do so? My concern is what legacy this game creates right now. I would personally recommend a constructive avenue for criticisms and don't want to butcher the game right here. That is why we make WWYD and Reconstruction threads. It looks like this game could use such a thread.

From what I have seen on r/SonicTheHedgehog, there seems to be equal praise and criticism of Forces. There are some, like WT, who were disappointed by Forces but wanted to love it. There's some who outright praise the game and maybe avoid the flaws a bit. Then there's that middle cluster like me who like/enjoyed the game but arent sugarcoating the flaws and are pointing them out.

My 750k-1mill estimate seems to be a conservative estimate, considering that Lost World sold 700k and that was only on one system. The lowest selling game to this date is Rise of Lyric/Shattered Crystal, which sold 600k combined. A highly optimistic number would be closer to Generations 1.85 million copies. The actual numbers arent available for Forces (and probably wont be until the end of the year if anything). If Sega says it did strongly then by context I would say it did somewhere between Lost World and Generations. Hell it could have done better for all we know.

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3 hours ago, TheRedStranger said:

My concern is what legacy this game creates right now.

Yeah, that's my concern too. It's nice that people clearly WANT 3D games despite everyone saying otherwise...but when it has the major flaws that it has and yet does so well, what would that say to SEGA?

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19 hours ago, WarTraveller said:

Yeah, that's my concern too. It's nice that people clearly WANT 3D games despite everyone saying otherwise...but when it has the major flaws that it has and yet does so well, what would that say to SEGA?

Fast 3D exists and work naturally. I mean Forza, Need for Speed, F-zero, Mirrors Edge, and the Batman and Assassin Games are pretty speedy. But Sega cannot assume that the mechanical commercial acclaim will translate later on, much like RE4 to RE5/6. Resident Evil 4’s tight second person and planted-shooting really kept the tension like with the fixed camera in RE2. The spirit of precious designs stayed in perspective. But RE5 and 6 became squirrely and loose and more action oriented, loosing its touch with the tone of the game franchise. Sonic could easily become dissonant like this as well mechanically as this next go around might not go as great. Critical success is usually one step beyond commercial, its a canary in a coal mine as critics usually wear out trends and seek trendsetting not out of snobbery (though some can be that way, especially about pretentious, vogue-but-vapid social issues). Instead their insight stems from the glut of perspective of trends from having to review so, so many games deeply with said trends. They can be wrong and imperfect but in general they are a good clue as to where to steer future investments and designs in your advancing production line. Sonic could milk the tropes and mechanics of Forces when they downtrend or be the reason for a downtrend. They seemed to have siezed the market moment but 3D Sonic’s RE6 market-bubble-pop-moment could right around the next ill considered corner. 

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On 2/8/2018 at 11:37 PM, TheRedStranger said:

Fast 3D exists and work naturally. I mean Forza, Need for Speed, F-zero, Mirrors Edge, and the Batman and Assassin Games are pretty speedy. But Sega cannot assume that the mechanical commercial acclaim will translate later on, much like RE4 to RE5/6. Resident Evil 4’s tight second person and planted-shooting really kept the tension like with the fixed camera in RE2. The spirit of precious designs stayed in perspective. But RE5 and 6 became squirrely and loose and more action oriented, loosing its touch with the tone of the game franchise. Sonic could easily become dissonant like this as well mechanically as this next go around might not go as great. Critical success is usually one step beyond commercial, its a canary in a coal mine as critics usually wear out trends and seek trendsetting not out of snobbery (though some can be that way, especially about pretentious, vogue-but-vapid social issues). Instead their insight stems from the glut of perspective of trends from having to review so, so many games deeply with said trends. They can be wrong and imperfect but in general they are a good clue as to where to steer future investments and designs in your advancing production line. Sonic could milk the tropes and mechanics of Forces when they downtrend or be the reason for a downtrend. They seemed to have siezed the market moment but 3D Sonic’s RE6 market-bubble-pop-moment could right around the next ill considered corner. 

So regarding Sonic's 3D entries we could end up with another downhill sled? I can see that happening, although I'm not sure if they could make a story in the game that is poorer than 06 and Forces. I mean the game looks fine to me bar weaker level design (due to mainly newcomers making the levels this time around) but it's story was by far my major criticism of the game. I don't think it's even translation issues it was everywhere and nowhere in how it was set up. I mean not only was it vaguely similar to concepts we had already watched and read over the years with SoA and SoE content but it had no complexity or depth. It's biggest mystery with it's new villain ended up not only being resolved quickly but very anti-climatic as well. Any problem I had with the game itself for now only consists of it's story, I'd honestly say Sonic 06's story had fewer problems and that game was one of the biggest messes SEGA's developers ever had.

Regarding the Modern/Boost Style I'm not sure how it could fumble in it's core gameplay itself, rather it's level design that'll be the major factor in it's continuation in the series. Unless they decide to go in another different direction anyway which I'd be fine with as much of a risk as it is. Although I would like to see Parkour done a lot better than in Lost World, minus the overall gameplay of it they had something going with that. Open World Sonic? Like say the Spider-Man games? That could actually work but that's just me.

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What I want is a Sonic game developed by Platinum Games. SEGA know first-hand how good they are, so how it hasn't happened yet is a mystery. Though...they did pass on publishing a sequel to Bayonetta, so Nintendo had to pick it up. So I guess they just don't know a good idea when they got one. I mean, clearly.

I dunno, I just can't shake the feeling that Forces was...intentionally crippled.

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Mike Arcade said:


Some rather interesting cuts from Sonic Forces are told here, which I think would have helped make the game's story a lot better overall.

However they didn't mention Sally and bunnie in the other mini-comics. For shame. 

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On 2/24/2018 at 11:49 PM, Wulfsbane said:

Reckon they didnt know about it.

Also they didn't mention what could have been the different "Animals" (Mobians) we could have played as such as Dragons, which I find funny that wasn't mentioned but hey at least some details got out.

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4 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

Also they didn't mention what could have been the different "Animals" (Mobians) we could have played as such as Dragons, which I find funny that wasn't mentioned but hey at least some details got out.

So much for playing as dulcy then :P

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  • 2 months later...

https://segaretro.org/Eitaro_Toyoda

So I found out something interesting today, turns out that the script writer for Sonic Forces isn't a writer...no I don't mean that as a joke, I mean to say he's literally not a writer. He's mainly a game designer that has been on Sonic Team as far back as Sonic Adventure 1. Now there is a 2nd writer as well but Makoto Goya is pretty much a complete ghost, even then some search results on what games he worked on is inconsistent which makes me wonder if it's the same guy or not. This really explains a lot regarding the context and quality of the writing in the game, yet that begs a very good question.

Why was a level designer the one to write the script for Sonic Forces? 

http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Infinite/Gallery

Also I found the concept art for Infinite, really interesting stuff especially the first picture for his design. No idea what they were thinking for the bull design though XP

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  • 2 years later...
12 hours ago, TheRedStranger said:

How do you think the Custom Character idea could have been improved?

Absolutely. Granted, I wasn't expecting a homerun for their first attempt at it, but it could have been done so much better.

 

We could have easily had twice the amount of different Mobians. Not to mention unique abilities for them, while we do have that by an extent, it's really underwhelming.

Perhaps that's because the Wisps cover that overall.

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