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Capes n' Comics: Comic Books Discussion


Mike Arcade

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Considering everything going on in the comic book industry (minus a certain blue hedgehog) has been crazy and not just on Marvel and DC's end I figured it's time to open up a discussion on Comic Books...in General!

So if any of you are reading Current or Old Comic Books let us know your thoughts on how they stack up or why they don't, or how you feel about the media in general and it's themes. Go nuts, just make sure you don't break reality and reboot everything while you do so. XP

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  • 3 weeks later...


Saw this video and it brought some interesting points regarding the current state of Marvel at the moment of this post, as well as regards to the Legacy of Super Heroes. Do you think some Super Heroes should only be one man or woman should retain a title or shall there be a legacy for any super hero?

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14 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

 Do you think some Super Heroes should only be one man or woman should retain a title or shall there be a legacy for any super hero?

It depends; a legacy works better for some types of heroes (like Spider-Man or Green Lantern) than others (Wolverine, for example). And some legacies seem to be cursed (e.g. Ms. Marvel). Even though I grew up reading about Peter Parker, who was the one and only Spider-Man at the time, I also like Miles as Spider-Man. Ben Reilly, who later came to be known as Scarlet Spider, is a different matter though.

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3 hours ago, MoKat said:

It depends; a legacy works better for some types of heroes (like Spider-Man or Green Lantern) than others (Wolverine, for example). And some legacies seem to be cursed (e.g. Ms. Marvel). Even though I grew up reading about Peter Parker, who was the one and only Spider-Man at the time, I also like Miles as Spider-Man. Ben Reilly, who later came to be known as Scarlet Spider, is a different matter though.

I agree, although not sure how I feel about X-23 being Wolverine, I mean that code name of hers was originally her test tube number and considering what happened to the original Logan I guess it makes sense taking the mantle but I dunno. I do think that the New Hulk should have been a whole new character, Kamala Ms. Marvel seems to be okay but I don't know much about her, the worst of the new legacy characters is Riri Williams Iron Heart for sure though.

Aside from the crazy mess that was the Clone Saga and Ben Reilly's recent actions what's wrong with him? I know the history about some comics but not every thing, I don't read current comics personally though DC looks to have been doing a lot better since DC Rebirth while Marvel has gone down hill with a very few exceptions.

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20 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

I agree, although not sure how I feel about X-23 being Wolverine, I mean that code name of hers was originally her test tube number and considering what happened to the original Logan I guess it makes sense taking the mantle but I dunno. I do think that the New Hulk should have been a whole new character, Kamala Ms. Marvel seems to be okay but I don't know much about her, the worst of the new legacy characters is Riri Williams Iron Heart for sure though.

Aside from the crazy mess that was the Clone Saga and Ben Reilly's recent actions what's wrong with him? I know the history about some comics but not every thing, I don't read current comics personally though DC looks to have been doing a lot better since DC Rebirth while Marvel has gone down hill with a very few exceptions.

I'm enjoying Cho's (mis)adventures as the "totally awesome" Hulk so far, but I can see where you're coming from. I like Kamala, but it seems like Very Bad Things tended  to happen to the ladies who go by the moniker "Ms. Marvel" (look up Carol Danvers and Sharon Ventura...I don't count Sofen cuz she was a villain who went by the name "Moonstone" first).

I never really warmed up to Ben Reilly...and the Clone Sage definitely didn't help.

...

What did he do recently?

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Ah and back again I am, so in a recent story arc Ben Riley was not only brought back essentially, but also became this villain called Anubis whose plan was to clone/bring back everyone dead in Peter's life including Uncle Ben but failed to do that. As far as I know Kaine (The New Scarlet Spider) and such were hunting him down at least until Secret Invasion happened anyway.

So Cho's Hulk Stories are pretty good then? Eh, I'm all for a lighter Hulk such as him but still I'd have preferred a new character then anything else, funny enough in that Ultimate Spider-Man Cartoon Series he became the Iron Spider so it's not the first time he's taken up another hero's mantle.

The Clone Saga didn't end up how it originally was suppose to be hence why it's so infamous, honestly regarding the comics as crazy as this'll sound I like the original idea of him obtaining the mantle of Spider-Man while Peter Parker gets a happy ending, since most of his recent stories aren't that great especially since One More Day, heck the best Spider-Man story I can think of is the Ultimate Marvel Series (Even after his "Death") and Superior Spider-Man. Had that plan actually happen I think all that crap like One More Day would have never happened, heck maybe Aunt May should have laid to rest too now that I think about it. Don't mind me though as my views regarding fiction can seem very strange and off, that's just me.

Although I can't stand Carol Danvers Captain Marvel, she's a complete failure of a character and became irredeemable to me ever since Civil War II, at least Tony Stark questioned himself constantly during the first Civil War as stupid as that storyline ended up.

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Indeed it did, granted I thought Danvers was pretty cool, once she became Captain Marvel though it became a downward spiral that really shouldn't have been.
 


Now THIS video right here highlights my biggest problem about the X-Men Series, as in why are they hated while most Super Heroes are generally liked in the Marvel Universe. It seriously makes no sense, and even the comic explanation in here just takes away everything that the series meant with it's subtext. I call it the "All Mutants or No Mutants" Scenario, if all Mutants from the X-Men are hated then Super Heroes in general no matter how they got their powers should be generally feared or seen as freaks less they are hired by government officials kinda like what Ultimate Marvel did. But if Super Heroes are well liked then there's no reason why the X-Men should be treated like garbage overall when they save the day. I've had this complex with the X-Men and Marvel for years now and I have no satisfactory answer on it, I mean if the X-Men are called Mutants then shouldn't Super Heroes in general be called Mutants? I mean they HAVE Super Powers and granted magic and biology regarding power origins is pretty different to say the least but still.

Heck in the comic storyline Days of Future Past every Mutant AND Super Hero was wiped out, the Sentinels saw no differentiation between the two and up until recently the Avengers, SHIELD, pretty much no one wanted to directly help Mutant kind out unless they had no real choice in the matter, not because they hate them or anything but...just because I guess. In fact as much as I like say Spider-Man and Wolverine team up I really liked how consistent Fox's X-Men Series was overall regarding how Mutants were treated. Heck I like the MCU because they don't have to deal with the snags regarding Mutants, the fear and paranoia is replaced regarding the Inhumans who were genetically engineered by aliens. Though the fear of Inhumans however actually makes sense unlike Mutants as they are compromised by Alien Forces (The Kree) and who knows what they'll do, they have an entire kingdom!

Look I like the X-Men Series as a whole, the 90's Cartoon was one of my favorites as a kid, but with the Marvel Universe as a whole it doesn't make any sense to me, I'd honestly prefer that they'd separate Marvel Super Heroes and X-Men Series as different worlds somehow.

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  • 10 months later...
On 6/22/2017 at 9:08 PM, Mike Arcade said:

Indeed it did, granted I thought Danvers was pretty cool, once she became Captain Marvel though it became a downward spiral that really shouldn't have been.
 


Now THIS video right here highlights my biggest problem about the X-Men Series, as in why are they hated while most Super Heroes are generally liked in the Marvel Universe. It seriously makes no sense, and even the comic explanation in here just takes away everything that the series meant with it's subtext. I call it the "All Mutants or No Mutants" Scenario, if all Mutants from the X-Men are hated then Super Heroes in general no matter how they got their powers should be generally feared or seen as freaks less they are hired by government officials kinda like what Ultimate Marvel did. But if Super Heroes are well liked then there's no reason why the X-Men should be treated like garbage overall when they save the day. I've had this complex with the X-Men and Marvel for years now and I have no satisfactory answer on it, I mean if the X-Men are called Mutants then shouldn't Super Heroes in general be called Mutants? I mean they HAVE Super Powers and granted magic and biology regarding power origins is pretty different to say the least but still.

Heck in the comic storyline Days of Future Past every Mutant AND Super Hero was wiped out, the Sentinels saw no differentiation between the two and up until recently the Avengers, SHIELD, pretty much no one wanted to directly help Mutant kind out unless they had no real choice in the matter, not because they hate them or anything but...just because I guess. In fact as much as I like say Spider-Man and Wolverine team up I really liked how consistent Fox's X-Men Series was overall regarding how Mutants were treated. Heck I like the MCU because they don't have to deal with the snags regarding Mutants, the fear and paranoia is replaced regarding the Inhumans who were genetically engineered by aliens. Though the fear of Inhumans however actually makes sense unlike Mutants as they are compromised by Alien Forces (The Kree) and who knows what they'll do, they have an entire kingdom!

Look I like the X-Men Series as a whole, the 90's Cartoon was one of my favorites as a kid, but with the Marvel Universe as a whole it doesn't make any sense to me, I'd honestly prefer that they'd separate Marvel Super Heroes and X-Men Series as different worlds somehow.

It always confused me how Spiderman was not considered effectually mutant and thus deserving of the same social stigma. He is a mutate which means he was not born but made what he was, but nevertheless is still a mutant. And from perspective of a society who does not know his origins and actually indentity, then why treat him differently than Wolverine? I could aonot understand metahumans like Captain America having the trust of society in Marvel in the X-man context, since he is a product of carefully thought out science and not a (rather scientifically puerile) game of genetic Russian-Roulette and has the veneer of oversight (he is an American soldier after all). Iron man works as well as he a brilliant human being with amazing means to achieve superhuman heights through his resources and innovations. But immortals like Thor, mutates like Hulk and Spider-Man, contain the similar chaotic elements like that of a mutant and thus just clash with the mythos of X-man when they are lavished with praise in the presence of mutant metahuman prejudice.

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21 hours ago, TheRedStranger said:

It always confused me how Spiderman was not considered effectually mutant and thus deserving of the same social stigma. He is a mutate which means he was not born but made what he was, but nevertheless is still a mutant. And from perspective of a society who does not know his origins and actually indentity, then why treat him differently than Wolverine? I could aonot understand metahumans like Captain America having the trust of society in Marvel in the X-man context, since he is a product of carefully thought out science and not a (rather scientifically puerile) game of genetic Russian-Roulette and has the veneer of oversight (he is an American soldier after all). Iron man works as well as he a brilliant human being with amazing means to achieve superhuman heights through his resources and innovations. But immortals like Thor, mutates like Hulk and Spider-Man, contain the similar chaotic elements like that of a mutant and thus just clash with the mythos of X-man when they are lavished with praise in the presence of mutant metahuman prejudice.

Then again Spider-Man is stigmatized in comic by the local New York City newspaper “the Daily Bugle” by the editor, J. Jonah Jameson (and yet he is making money for his Spider-Man articles being printed). As for the Hulk he’s hunted by General Ross because Hulk is dangerous and he also seeks to use the gamma radiation research that created him as a weapon for the US military to use. Yes I do see how the chaotic elements of x-men clash with the other marvel heroes. I think the reason why the other marvel characters clash with x-men in mythos is because of the comics reflected the attitudes of the times they were created. For example, Captain America initially created during WWII in marvel’s infancy, Iron Man during the Vietnam conflict, Hulk and the fantastic four to emphasize the advancements in scientific achievements such as understanding space exploration, and understanding atomic energy along with the formation and understanding of genetics. As for the X-men, they came about on the back drop of the civil rights movement. 

I don’t know how to splice the x-men with the other marvel heroes tbh. Unless there is something missing...

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On 4/24/2018 at 6:34 PM, Akessel92 said:

Then again Spider-Man is stigmatized in comic by the local New York City newspaper “the Daily Bugle” by the editor, J. Jonah Jameson (and yet he is making money for his Spider-Man articles being printed). As for the Hulk he’s hunted by General Ross because Hulk is dangerous and he also seeks to use the gamma radiation research that created him as a weapon for the US military to use. Yes I do see how the chaotic elements of x-men clash with the other marvel heroes. I think the reason why the other marvel characters clash with x-men in mythos is because of the comics reflected the attitudes of the times they were created. For example, Captain America initially created during WWII in marvel’s infancy, Iron Man during the Vietnam conflict, Hulk and the fantastic four to emphasize the advancements in scientific achievements such as understanding space exploration, and understanding atomic energy along with the formation and understanding of genetics. As for the X-men, they came about on the back drop of the civil rights movement. 

I don’t know how to splice the x-men with the other marvel heroes tbh. Unless there is something missing...

 Spider-Man is still seen to be a hero, despite the New York Times...I mean Daily Buguel. As you can see by the White House, Fake News can’t keep New Yorkers down. XP

Hulk’s social tensions also does not line up with X-men and is kind of dissonant symbolically with its own historical context. Is Ross symbolizing the WW2 traditional solider wanting to be relevant in a world of atomic M.A.D? Because his theme would make more sense if he was trying to tame and weaponize the Hulk, like we recklessly try to tame the power of nuclear fission. It sounds more fitting for a pro-denuclearization story or at least a cautionary tale about weaponizing the powers of physics. 

—-

I am open to considering ways to harmonize the X-men. But there would be no civil rights analogue in that world due to hero being seen as mostly heros by society. It would make sense that certain counter cultures would be anti meta-human but not to the comical ubiquity of the lore as is. To add hysteria just make it more like the AIDS hysteria and make mutants contagious and their powers unpredictable. Biologically it makes no sense for people to “evolve” powers (mutation is a loss or reshuffling of genetic information - not a gain). Wolverine would be more genetically similar to a Chihuahua compared to the original Canis Lupis if we want to be scientifically honest...So I would propose it’s viral. It’s an infectious retrovirus that tries and turns you into meta-human and has wild unpredictable results, even to the point of kill several hosts. Or perhaps some symbiotic parasite, again to the point of killing several hosts. If you sleep with someone they get it - and your teenager daughter could just melt one day after some fling with a predator spreading it. I would turn it all on it’s head and make it more about how social “progressivism” has corroded individual responsibility, creates more pharsieism and intolerance, and erodes perceptions objective truths. You could also make themes like Reparations and race-baiting show up. Don’t make them saints and give normal people more sensible reasons to be concerned. I would even make a subsection be bullies later in the story trying to gain political dominance by playing as Antifa-like ideological narcissists,  and then there is the really crazy cases like Bug-Chasers and the sexual assault of Felix Green . [Video has Language and sexual themes.} If you want to make social commentary in your comics, nuance equals subtlety. Subtlety makes better thoughtful entertainment.   

UPDATE: You could also consider the craziness of Covid-19 as prime material for something like this. 

 

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  • 2 years later...

IDW Publishing Loses MORE Executives as Comic Book Publisher SINKS!

Quote

The revolving door spins VERY fast at IDW Publishing. The President and another VP are suddenly leaving. The future looks very grim for the beleaguered comic book publisher. IDW has been losing cash for 3 to 4 years in a row. How long until they finally pull the plug?

This does not look good for IDW and by extension their Sonic series. Kneon & Geeky Sparkles discuss it here:

This commenter had a good point:

Quote

When a company starts the final dive into complete collapse, they find someone to pin their mistakes on, this is why they almost always get in a new CEO/boss at the last minute. These executives possibly jumped off the sinking ship to not be stuck with the blame.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have many- especially from TAS because they borrowed heavily  from Denny O’Neil and Neal Adams return of the dark knight detective. Everyone says Frank Miller, but I think Miller did better in Daredevil than Batman. 
 

As far as comics, look for the Batman Special from 1984. It was written by Mike Barr, and the villain was The Wraith. Think Star Trek Mirror-Mirror version of Batman, without the villain actually being an evil Bruce Wayne, and sans the goofy goatee. I make that analogy because Barr wrote DC’s Star Trek comic book. The Wraith was like Alec Trevalyan’s Janus in Goldeneye, Batman’s opposite number, who could match him thought for thought and blow for blow. I think the story was later revisited a few years ago by DC, around 2006 or so (?). 
 

But anything by Chuck Dixon (writer) and Graham Nolan (artist) is good Batman. Watch the next Ask Chuck Dixon on YouTube, and you will catch a question from me to Chuck....

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On 11/18/2020 at 9:33 PM, SGT Rock Vox said:

But anything by Chuck Dixon (writer) and Graham Nolan (artist) is good Batman. Watch the next Ask Chuck Dixon on YouTube, and you will catch a question from me to Chuck....

I'm curious what Chuck would have done if he was given the chance to write a Batman movie

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  • 7 months later...

I read Marvel's Deapool series, but that ended earlier this year. Immortal Hulk has been a strange, but interesting ride so far; The Leader is actually a serious threat! Haven't been following X-Men much lately. The series of Zorro mini-series put out by American Mythology have been very enjoyable, tho' they tend to have more supernatural/horror stuff in 'em than the original Zorro comics ever did.

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  • 3 months later...

This disgusts me...I want nothing to do with a "woke" Superman >.<

New Superman revealed to be bisexual, global activist in DC Comics [NY Post]

Quote

Continuing a recent trend of comic book characters coming out as LGBTQ, Superman is now confirmed to be bisexual and on the fight for global social issues, according to the DC team behind the character, who spoke to IGN.

This news is not for the traditional iteration of Clark Kent, but instead his 17-year-old son, Jon, who has taken up his father’s mantle.

 

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On 10/17/2021 at 7:00 PM, MoKat said:

The thing is, they're actually doing the right thing, in which they made a new character to do something like this instead of taking an already established character and going for it because representation.

However, it feels forced. DC literally just drops a "oh he's bi by the way" thing out there with no real build up or hint to prior to. It felt like they just wanted to check a box off and go on their way. Just sudden, shock character development.  I wouldnt be surprised in 5 or so years this gets dropped and never spoken of again

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17 hours ago, Wulfsbane said:

The thing is, they're actually doing the right thing, in which they made a new character to do something like this instead of taking an already established character and going for it because representation.

Good point.

17 hours ago, Wulfsbane said:

However, it feels forced. DC literally just drops a "oh he's bi by the way" thing out there with no real build up or hint to prior to. It felt like they just wanted to check a box off and go on their way. Just sudden, shock character development.

I agree; definitely feels forced.

{Edit: Here is what Dean Cain (who played Superman on TV for years) had to say about it - 'Woke' Superman's Mission Is Neither Bold Nor Brave

Quote

I say they’re jumping on the bandwagon, but they’re fighting the wrong issues. There is a clear agenda here. It’s globalist, it’s anti-America, but it’s not bold and it’s not brave.  

 

Edited by MoKat
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Superman colorist quits over comic's embrace of wokness [Fox News]

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A colorist involved in creating the Superman comic says he is quitting his position in response to the "wokeness" that has permeated the franchise.

 "I’m finishing out my contract with DC. I’m tired of this s***, I’m tired of them ruining these characters; they don’t have a right to do this," Superman: Son of Kal-El colorist Gabe Eltaeb said during a recent podcast, according to Bounding Into Comics.

 

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  • 4 months later...

DC Comics Getting DOWNSIZED? [Clownfish TV]

*mild language warning*

Kneon gives us his 2 cents about the situation:

The merger he mentions was reported by the NY Post here - WarnerMedia-Discovery merger OK’d, but Amazon-MGM remains in limbo

One commenter had a good point:

Quote

Reasonable, pragmatic and rational decision especially when high production cost and income drop in recent financial report. If they don't bring more income then they don't have a choice but to seld DC or sell the characters just like when SONY bought Spiderman from Marvel comics.

 

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  • 8 months later...

https://archive.org/stream/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes/TwilightOfTheSuperheroes_djvu.txt

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Script/TheTwilightOfTheSuperheroes

So, Alan Moore!

Certainly a famous, yet can also be a polarizing figure in comics. Known for Watchman and a few other titles you may or may not know about, he's mainly known now for having a burning distain for both Marvel and DC for a variety of reasons (ie, how creators are treated, how characters are treated, etc.).

I'm saying this because I'd figure to update this topic with a possibly interesting discussion. Years ago, Alan Moore proposed a Big Crossover in the Late 80's, some time before he completely bowed out of DC entirely after Watchman. Basically the story was about a Time Traveller warning John Constantine from a message to his Future Self about a Dystopia where after multiple events, including many villains and heroes dead, along with every alien bar Superman banished from Earth, lead to a Feudal Future where multiple Houses ran by Super Heroes and Villains are the only form of Government left.

It's also a murder mystery, with a gentleman dead due to reasons that are best left unsaid. Simply put, there's some big oddities with the story that I can't see happening in what's suppose to be a Possible Future.

Like for one, there is no way I could ever see Wonder Woman adopt a Superwoman moniker after marrying Superman. Granted, them ending up together is very played out, but still.

Another is the House of Thunder (Captain Marvel/Shazam), as in the whole house itself. Like seriously, why is it like that? That's not even getting into what Captain Marvel is into. o_o

It's an interesting read if you are a comic book fan, but so much characterization is just really off regarding Superman, Captain Marvel, and others. I know it's suppose to be a possible future, but still. I can't see this story happening as it was jolted down without some major changes had it happened, heck it probably could have ended up similar to Watchman with how it was originally intended to use the Charlton cast of Heroes. Although without giving away the story for those that do want to read it, squick aside regarding the plot, the twist regarding what happens and who it is was pretty interesting. Also I find it interesting how Moore wanted a team of Batman, The Shadow, Doc Savage, and Tarzan. That in of itself sounds like an awesome team, as crazy as it is.

It makes me wonder if many UK Comic Writers of that time were just innately cynical, yet the intentions of this story was to give the DC Superheroes a mythological end game. So that to Moore, they weren't just cashcows. I can understand the reasoning behind it, yet I can't say that how this proposal's draft was the best overall. Had things not gone south, it could have possibly happened. Had it, what do you think the landscape of DC Comics as a whole would have ended up? Let me know if you guys have read this before and give me your thoughts when you can.

Also, I find it funny how Moore points out the problems with Crisis on Infinite Earths, and how his concerns regarding it eventually led said problems like Infinite, Final, and Dark Crisis, let alone other comics like The New 52 and other Multiversal Concepts. Even though this story was meant to bring back the Multiverse in a way.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/3/2022 at 5:55 PM, Mike Arcade said:

Known for Watchman and a few other titles you may or may not know about, he's mainly known now for having a burning distain for both Marvel and DC for a variety of reasons (ie, how creators are treated, how characters are treated, etc.).

I don't blame him; there are many reasons not to like the Big 2, especially these days.

YoungRippa59 (Eric D. July) addressed that in one of his videos (*drops the Odessey link*):

How the Big 2 made their comics pointless | Lack of long-term story telling | Just an IP Farm

He has so much disdain, he started his own comic book company.

TBH, the whole industry is long overdue for an overhaul; Rippa says it better than I can here:

Artist says they're MONTHS late in getting paid | The elephant of the comic book industry

On 12/3/2022 at 5:55 PM, Mike Arcade said:

Years ago, Alan Moore proposed a Big Crossover in the Late 80's, some time before he completely bowed out of DC entirely after Watchman. Basically the story was about a Time Traveller warning John Constantine from a message to his Future Self about a Dystopia where after multiple events, including many villains and heroes dead, along with every alien bar Superman banished from Earth, lead to a Feudal Future where multiple Houses ran by Super Heroes and Villains are the only form of Government left.

Now I'm wondering if Injustice was a rip-off of that 🤔

On 12/3/2022 at 5:55 PM, Mike Arcade said:

I can understand the reasoning behind it, yet I can't say that how this proposal's draft was the best overall.

I'm inclined to agree.

On 12/3/2022 at 5:55 PM, Mike Arcade said:

Simply put, there's some big oddities with the story that I can't see happening in what's suppose to be a Possible Future.

And I have issues with those oddities, many of which involve how out of character some of the main players act.

Edited by MoKat
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  • 3 weeks later...

Eric had a good point in this video.

They're completely out of ideas | Another Spider-Person gets a Clone Saga

And this commenter had an interesting idea:

Quote

yeah they really mishandled Spider-Man in general over at marvel. if they really wanted a female character, they could have aged Peter Parker along a solid 100 comic series that was straight Canon, and left the fans with a really good storyline to pass on. and then Peter could have passed the mantle on to his daughter as he grew older as a proud father mentoring her as she did her new adventures. it would have been very similar to dragon Ball z and the Goku lineage.

but instead, they did so many things with Spider-Man that it's near meaningless and you could never really point back in the timeline for fans to catch up. and by overusing him and Miss using him for so many years, they kind of made it easy to whitewash him with all of these token replacements. sad.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/3/2023 at 4:30 PM, MoKat said:

Eric had a good point in this video.

They're completely out of ideas | Another Spider-Person gets a Clone Saga

And this commenter had an interesting idea:

 

Funny thing is, they DID do that! It was called Spider-Girl and featured just that, Peter's daughter as the new spider themed hero. Much like Spider-Man 2099, that ended up spawning a whole line of titles under the MC2 banner. As in, a sequel to the comics currently running at that time. Every time there's a new type of Spider-Man book, this tends to be the case. Marvel 2099, Marvel Noir, Ultimate Marvel. Although in Spider-Gwen/Ghost-Spider's case, it ended up to help spawn the whole Spider-verse debacle of comics and more Gwen Stacy themed super heroes. They've banked so hard on marketing a Multiverse they tend to forget how to write an actual consistent world. Hence all the mobile games with Spider-People and films that just drown you out of anything self contained and consistent.

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10 minutes ago, Mike Arcade said:

Funny thing is, they DID do that! It was called Spider-Girl and featured just that, Peter's daughter as the new spider themed hero. Much like Spider-Man 2099, that ended up spawning a whole line of titles under the MC2 banner.

That's right; thanks for reminding me! The MC2 banner didn't last long though. 🙃 I enjoyed J2, in which Cain Marko's son was the Juggernaut. Wild Thing had some goos issues, but overall it didn't really appeal much to me.

12 minutes ago, Mike Arcade said:

They've banked so hard on marketing a Multiverse they tend to forget how to write an actual consistent world.

Exactly.

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  • 4 months later...

I liked his restaurant analogy there ^.^

3 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

Marvel for some reason designed their main canon universe as 616. I don’t know why either.

I used to know why :P

Let's see what I can dig up...

How the Marvel Universe became "Earth-616" and grew into an entire Multiverse [GamesRadar]

Quote

The roots of Marvel's Multiverse go back to the earliest days of Marvel Comics itself, in the '60s. Though it wouldn't be formally named till later, the core Marvel Universe's first brush with another reality happened all the way back in 1962's Strange Tales #103, in which Johnny Storm of the Fantastic Four is transported to an alt-universe called the Fifth Dimension, later designated Earth-1612 of the Multiverse.

After that, 1963's Fantastic Four #10 sent Doctor Doom to the microscopic realm of Sub-Atomica. And that same year in Fantastic Four #19, the team found themselves sent back through time to face Rama-Tut, a time-traveling villain later revealed as one of the many identities of Kang the Conqueror, progressing the idea even further by showing the so-called 'Other-Earth' where Kang resides. Again, 'Other-Earth' was later incorporated fully into the Multiverse under the numeric designation Earth-6311.

Then, 1964's Strange Tales #126 ramped the concept of Marvel's alt-realities up again by sending Doctor Strange into the Dark Dimension, home of his arch-foe the dread Dormammu - an alternate world full of non-euclidean geometry, and incomprehensible cyclopean architecture rendered to psychedelic perfection by artist Steve Ditko. 

From there, Reed Richards led the Fantastic Four to pioneer Multiverse travel again in 1968's Fantastic Four Annual #6, in which he built the first machine designed to travel between realities, taking his family into the Negative Zone, an antimatter universe full of deadly horrors. 

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The numbering of the Marvel Multiverse has a separate, somewhat mysterious origin all its own, which starts in what may as well have been another reality for Marvel Comics at the time - the UK.

In the '60s, '70s, and into the '80s, most Marvel Comics were not directly imported to the UK and other overseas markets on a one-to-one basis. Instead, overseas publishers would license Marvel's stories for republication, sometimes localizing, re-editing, or collecting the stories in different ways than US fans got them. Over time, Marvel UK became something of its own separate side-branch of the Marvel Universe, with its own unique characters and titles that were tied to their US equivalents, but who very rarely crossed over in their early years.

Numerous British and UK-based creators who went on to become top names in the mainstream industry got their start working with US publishers through Marvel UK before branching out across the pond - including none other than Alan Moore, co-creator of Watchmen, known for his knack for breaking down, rebuilding, and redefining superhero concepts through a more nuanced lens.

In fact, it was partially Moore who named the Marvel Universe 'Earth-616,' in 1983's Daredevils #7 (a Marvel UK anthology title that had no relation to the singular blind hero Daredevil) in a story featuring Captain Britain, who had been established as just one of multiple heroes guarding their home realities across the Multiverse as part of the Captain Britain Corps.

However, there's a bit of mystery and controversy around how the Earth-616 designation first made it into Captain Britain, and why that particular number was chosen. Alan Davis, the story's artist, claims it was David Thorpe, Moore's predecessor as Captain Britain writer, who first coined the term, though Moore maintains he came up with it himself.

According to Moore, the number 616 was chosen at random to avoid using the terms 'Earth-One' or 'Earth-Two,' as used by DC. However, there are alternative ideas about how the worlds of Marvel's Multiverse get their numbers. A common belief is that the number 616 was chosen to honor the year and month of Fantastic Four #1's 1961 debut, which launched the Marvel Universe - and indeed some of Marvel's numbered worlds get their designations from this formula. 

ScreenRant say pretty much the same thing - Why Marvel's Universe is Called '616' in The Comics

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The question of when and how Marvel's 'prime' reality earned the designation '616' is easy to answer, even if the motivations behind it have been the subject off disagreement. The term first appeared in the pages of The Daredevils #7 (1983), a UK comic series featuring multiple heroes, led by Marvel's own UK superhero Captain Britain. To keep a long story short, the Captain (Brian Braddock) gets caught up in an interdimensional court case over the destruction of a reality. Braddock soon finds he is just one of an endless number of parallel reality variations making up a larger Captain Britain Corps. To distinguish Brian from the others, he is referred to as "Captain Britain of Earth 616."

The short story titled "Rough Justice" is credited to writer Alan Moore and artist Alan Davis, so it should be easy to find out who had the idea of assigning a number to Marvel's original reality. When Davis was credited for the assigning of the number, he claimed it was the work of prior Captain Britain writer Dave Thorpe. The number? Davis said it reflected Thorpe's cynical views on superhero stories, giving their universe a variation of The Mark of The Beast ('666'). However, since Thorpe is on the record as a fan of superhero comics, Alan Moore seems a simple candidate. The best explanation tied to the mind behind Watchmen and The Killing Joke is that the number is a random one--but intended to subvert the DC books at the time, which suggested their original universe was 'Earth-One' as opposed to a truly random example.

Funny that you said "unlike DC"; it seems to be a subversion of DC's Earth-One.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok, -who- dropped the ball on this one?

Marvel Editors FAILED! Ms Marvel Gets Religion-Swapped in DEATH! [comicsgate.org]

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As the covers marking Ms Marvel’s demise arrive, it became apparent that there is a lack of art direction happening in the Marvel office. Kamala Khan, a Muslim character whose religion we are constantly reminded of, is depicted in a very recognizable Christian imagery on a cover – as pointed out by her ‘fans’.

Rumble video: Marvel Editors FAILED! Ms Marvel Gets Religion-Swapped in DEATH!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/14/2023 at 3:32 PM, MoKat said:

Ok, -who- dropped the ball on this one?

Personally, I find it more comical than anything else. XP

Then again I may be bias in that regard. I'm not sure if there's a term for a kangaroo court for a dead comic book character that will absolutely come back before the end of the year, but if there is a term for it that would certainly fit this marketing ploy.
 

Don't mind the clickbait title, that's not true...for the Marvel Comics' Spider-Man you know of. That, and Marvel already does it enough on their own, at this point death would be a mercy for the character.

Jonathon Hickman (someone who can actually write decent to good comics), and was the man who brought back the X-Men in comics with it's Krakoan Plotline, is writing a mini-series where the Ultimate Marvel Universe apparently comes back...maybe?

Simply put, The Maker (Ultimate Marvel Reed Richards turned bad after he got rejected and cucked by his Sue Storm) has escaped from his prison in the Main Marvel Universe and has decided to play....well, Maker in a world familiar to Ultimate Marvel...as far as we know for now.

Gotta say, Hickman had me hooked with the first arcs of his X-Men run and it's conclusion, so I'm pretty sure that this will turn out well even if Ultimate Marvel doesn't come back. Although I kinda hope it does, only if to put Miles Morales back in his world and we can have separate Spider-Men again. Sans any Clones because I am 90's trash. XP

All jokes aside, I liked a few things from Ultimate Marvel back in the day, but it always rung out to me as the A-Hole Marvel Universe due to how a lot of characters can come off as completely jerks. Other than Ultimate Spider-Man back when Peter Parker was still alive, every other Ultimate Comic run either had a rocky start or rocky everything. I heard the first Ultimates (that world's Avengers) was pretty good, but it was also written by Mark Miller so it depends on who you ask. 

That's not even getting into how the line of comics shot itself in the foot with Ultimate Power, the Ultimates sequels, and Ultimatum which basically killed all momentum and investment for a majority of readers...along with far too many characters to count. At least, until Peter Parker died and Miles Morales came in to the fold to briefly bring some life into it. But by that point the damage was done.

For clarification, killing off Peter Parker in that continuity actually improved Ultimate Marvel for awhile with Miles, that would be unfeasible in any other kind of run that isn't a Mini-Series. But after 2015 Secret Wars, that line of comics, along with the world, was done for...until now?

Ultimate Marvel was an odd title at first, yet also started off with the same strategy as MC2 or Marvel 2099. The intention was to make a Marvel Series for a new generation and audience, a Reboot/Remake of sorts before that was very prominent. Didn't exactly work out that way, but the effort was apricated for a younger audience. I actually had Ultimate Spider-Man issue 1 as a kid, wish I still had it. 90s Cartoon Spider-Man was always my Spidey though XP

The way I understood it as a kid was that it was the Younger Marvel Comics with usually younger versions of the Marvel Super Heroes, and that Nick Fury was based off of Samuel L. Jackson (and now you know how he got in the Marvel Movies). Did any of you know or heard of this run of comics? If so, what did you think? 

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On 6/22/2023 at 7:06 PM, Mike Arcade said:

All jokes aside, I liked a few things from Ultimate Marvel back in the day, but it always rung out to me as the A-Hole Marvel Universe due to how a lot of characters can come off as completely jerks.

*cough*Wolverine*cough*

Ultimate Avengers didn't appeal to me, but then again I was never a big fan of  the Avengers.

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That's not even getting into how the line of comics shot itself in the foot with Ultimate Power, the Ultimates sequels, and Ultimatum which basically killed all momentum and investment for a majority of readers...along with far too many characters to count. At least, until Peter Parker died and Miles Morales came in to the fold to briefly bring some life into it. But by that point the damage was done.

I'm inclined to agree with that; ya couldn't keep up with who was who without a scorecard ;)

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The way I understood it as a kid was that it was the Younger Marvel Comics with usually younger versions of the Marvel Super Heroes, and that Nick Fury was based off of Samuel L. Jackson (and now you know how he got in the Marvel Movies).

Sound about right to me.

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Personally, I find it more comical than anything else.

Yeah, I thought it was hilarious, but it proves that the editors didn't do their job very well so it made Marvel look bad in general 😳

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  • 1 month later...

I'm sharing this video because I enjoyed it...

Ms. Marvel Is Coming Back ALREADY?! [Joe's Geek Show, ~3 min.]

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These are my thoughts on the quick death and return of #msmarvel.

I suppose that was necessary in order to get the comics & the movie universes incarnations of her on the same page (pun intended), but it does feel like her return came too soon. As Joe said, there is so much they could have done with the aftermath; Marvel missed a great opportunity to dive deeply into Kamala's past and develop the people she interacted with regularly. Oh well... :P

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"The Heart of the Marvel Universe."

If she's the heart of Marvel Comics, then that heart must have been pumping embalming fluid.

All this seems to me is that they're just trying to have Kamala Khan be more relevant before the movie comes out. So let me get this right, she died as an Inhuman, but now comes back as Mutant. If that's not a course correction for how badly they screwed up the Inhumans and to further bury them by not having her be associated with them, then I don't know what is.

If anything, this shows how cheap and transparent the character is, like all the Silver Age Jimmy Olsen stories where he gets powers every week, except this is meant to be played straight. There's no unique identity to Kamala Khan, she takes the name Ms. Marvel, was based around the Inhumans, and is now riding the X-Men train which already has a massive cast of characters.

At least Miles Morales was meant to be a 2nd Spider-Man in an alternate continuity, what's her excuse for being so derivative, doubly so since she's just jumping so many different groups and hero books. Because now I'm just not seeing a point to her at all.

Should have been the character to help the Inhumans become more of a thing, and see what sort of plotlines that could lead to.

But no, instead they've gone the obvious route.

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18 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

If she's the heart of Marvel Comics, then that heart must have been pumping embalming fluid.

🤣Good one!

18 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

All this seems to me is that they're just trying to have Kamala Khan be more relevant before the movie comes out.

Yeah, that sounds accurate 😜

18 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

So let me get this right, she died as an Inhuman, but now comes back as Mutant. If that's not a course correction for how badly they screwed up the Inhumans and to further bury them by not having her be associated with them, then I don't know what is.

I agree. How does that even work?

From the Marvel Wiki:

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More then half a million years ago, the alien race known as the Kree visited Earth and experimented with a group of primitive humans. Their intent was to engineer soldiers in their intergalactic war for conquest, but instead it was foretold that said creations would one day destroy them. The Kree ended their experiments and left the Earth, expecting the experiments to die, but the test subjects and their descendants would go on to form a society of their own isolated from the rest of humanity. They became known as The Inhumans, an advanced sub-species of the human race who gain their powers through exposure to Terrigen Mist, which activates the augmentations in their DNA

Okay, so technically she could have had a latent mutant gene that was activated by exposure to the Terrigen Mist, but I don't recall that being in her origin story.

From her entry at the Marvel Wiki:

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Kamala possesses an unrevealed power from her mutation. Charles Xavier believes that Kamala having her Inhuman powers activating first was suppressing her mutant powers. Xavier noted that unlike other mutants, Kamala was able make contact with Terrigen Mist without suffering any ill effects.

Meh, smells like a ret-con to me :P

18 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

If anything, this shows how cheap and transparent the character is, like all the Silver Age Jimmy Olsen stories where he gets powers every week, except this is meant to be played straight.

That's a great comparison. 😁

18 hours ago, Mike Arcade said:

There's no unique identity to Kamala Khan, she takes the name Ms. Marvel, was based around the Inhumans, and is now riding the X-Men train which already has a massive cast of characters.

Woot, woot...all aboard the Hype Train! This month's stop is Krakoa!😅

I told ya that the "Ms Marvel" moniker was cursed🫠😄

{Edit: Her entry at the Marvel Wiki is a pretty good (and long) read, BTW}

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