WarTraveller Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Sonic Forces: a mixed-reviewed game that spun off the heels of Mania's smash-hit success. Love the gameplay, hate the gameplay, no matter what there is always room for improvement and the there is always something interesting that could be tweaked or changed. That said, there is one thing I'm sure we can agree on; the story was weak. *sounds of Infinite screaming are heard in the background* Well okay, the story had a few interesting ideas. But they're just...not used. At least, not used well enough. It makes you wonder...What Would You Do Differently? =====-----===== Okay! So, let's get this started with this question; "How Would You Handle the Returning Villain Characters?" Here's my answer to start it off. Well, first of all, they wouldn't be illusions from the OG villain used for nothing but to hype up the game, they'd actually be there. HOWEVER, they'd not necessarily be the villains from this timeline. I'd rather take a page from Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon; in those games, a number of past Team Bosses return but they're not the ones from the previous games. Rather, they're from alternate timelines where they've already won, so the energies of their worlds can be used for Team Rainbow Rocket's own goals. Same sort of thing here; imagine if the Phantom Ruby did as Stealth and co actually set it up to do in Mania (that is, alter and add to reality) rather than the weaksauce McGuffin it became in Forces. So in this case, it'd have the power to pull alternates from timelines where they have already championed over Sonic. This would alter them juuuuuust enough to change the dynamic between them. Here's my suggestion for them separately; Metal Sonic: The obvious thing here would be, "Sonic dies at Stardust Speedway" but nah, too obvious. Again, it's the character winning, not Eggman. Instead, this Metal diverges during the climax of Heroes, where he manages to defeat every member of Team Sonic, then the rest of the teams too and even killing Eggman. Of course, now that everyone's wiped out and even his creator is gone, he doesn't actually know what to do anymore. He's now the real Sonic...in fact he's the only Sonic now, but that's all he ever bothered to plan for. Without a purpose, he sort of mills around looking for something else to do, until Infinite approaches him and proposes something; take down Sonic and serve Eggman all over again. Locked in his Neo form, Metal could take the form of anyone he wanted, which would serve Eggman well for sending moles into the Resistance. He likes Shadow, hates Zavok and gets along well with Chaos. Shadow: Ahh now this one IS a bit more obvious; he sides with Black Doom, lets Sonic and Co get eaten, then he kills Black Doom and leads the Black Arms himself. This is basically the setup to my own Travellerverse, but there's no Traveller and thus no-one to really take his new troops on. Result? A heavily mutated Shadow, leading troops he can't use, left ruling a world that's slowly dying from the Black Arm's influence. So when his troops find a portal in the middle of the city, he's straight down there and through it. He comes across Infinite and Neo Metal, and is asked if he wants to spread his influence to this new world too (under Eggman's rule, of course). He obliges. He is closer to what Shadow used to be before Sonic X made him the "EDGETM" archetype he's now known for; cocky, confident and more of a foil to Sonic - and the only one of the four able to match Sonic in pure speed. Likes Metal, hates Chaos and gets along with Zavok. Chaos: Well he wouldn't get taken out in a cutscene by Fanservice Sonic for one. Anyway, Chaos is a bit more...simple. Eggman makes him go Perfect Chaos, Perfect Chaos kills EVERYONE. End of the World. Gone. The sheer power used to do so reverts him to his 0 form, and breaks what remains of his mind in the process - he killed all the Chao, so...oops. He failed at avenging them so poorly he wiped them all out. And with even Tikal gone AWOL, he has nothing to keep him stable, and both his mental state and his body's powers deteriorate. By the time Infinite finds him, he's little more than a puddle. Eggman decides to revive him in a remote-controlled robotic suit (remote-controlled so he won't backstab Eggman) to serve as his muscle in this little team while using the negative energy of this universe to further power the Phantom Ruby. Chaos would be the most unstable, capable of very basic speech and is so far gone he doesn't even recognise Sonic anymore - but he knows for sure he wants to pound him into the dust. Likes Zavok, hates Shadow and gets along with Metal. Zavok: Bad Ending to Sonic Lost World. Again. This time Zavok decided to actually stay and watch Tails' not-roboticization (how on earth do you even spell that) so he knows for sure he is under his control. He sics him on Sonic and this time, Tails does manage to severely damage him. Blasting his legs off, Tailsbot drags Sonic to Zavok's feet and Zavok responds by putting Sonic in the best position to watch his world - and his friends - die slowly. Demoralised, Sonic does nothing as Zavok absorbs the last of the energy from his world and lets the remains just crumble. Zavok proceeds to use the energies to create a sort of successor to the Lost Hex, where Zeti can flourish and begin to plan how to conquer planets on an...intergalactic scale. So naturally, he jumps at the chance to get even more power from Infinite and Eggman and joins their crew without a second thought. Crass and sadistic, Zavok takes great pleasure from torturing Sonic in the six months Eggman has free reign of the world, though fascinated more than anything at Sonic's refusal to break despite the things he does to him. He knows full-well that Eggman plans to betray them at the most convenient time...and he's ready to backstab him in turn. Likes Chaos, hates Metal and gets along with Shadow. Well...that got rather dark. H-How would you try it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Arcade Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 That was an interesting take, I guess infinite knows how to have Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap. XP (Jojo Reference) Although it's a bit too Multiverse-y for me and it wouldn't exactly explain the Hard Boiled Heavies from Mania. I mean I don't mind them being "Illusions" so to speak though I don't care for the explanation of Virtual Reality as that makes no sense. I guess one way it could be done would be that they are "Copies" of said villains from the Ruby who think they are the originals, that way you could have some interesting dynamics of them once they find out the truth and want to stay alive, avoiding Imperfect Phantoms that would be sent to hunt them down. You'd also fight each of the Phantom Villains twice from a gameplay standpoint to avert the lack of bosses in the game. When you fight them a second time it would be a completely different fight with them undergoing a new, heavily warped "Phantom" form much like said Heavies of Sonic Mania. They end up becoming unstable and you'd have to take them down, could give you a sad scene with Phantom Shadow fading away. There really were a lot of missed opportunities for this game, heck with the Phantom Ruby warping and altering reality that alone gives you so much to work with. So with that comes this question...How would you handle the Phantom Ruby in Sonic Forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTraveller Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Mike Arcade said: How would you handle the Phantom Ruby in Sonic Forces? Well for one thing, I would attempt to make the Ruby's depiction more consistent with how it was in Mania; a strange, alien artefact that had the power to change reality and bestow more power than the Emeralds - or at least, could give out a reading even more powerful than them. Annoyingly, despite so adamantly shoehorning Mania into Forces, SEGA decided they knew better than a younger generation who actually know what the fanbase (parts of it, at least) want and decided to just recton it all; In Mania, the Ruby was highly suggested to have the power to change reality on a whim, hence it being able to create the Hard Boiled Heavies out of a bunch of Eggrobos. In Forces, it just casts illusions that somehow trick you into hurting yourself. Weak. As mentioned, the ruby gave off higher power readings than the Emeralds and leaves a strange sort of byproduct that can warp reality all on its own, as well as being able to cancel out Super Forms - something that has only been replicated with Dark Gaia, the closest thing the Sonic games have to Satan. Forces doesn't even bother to explore this, as the Emeralds are DLC-specific and little else. Which is funny since you'd THINK the first thing the The Really-Not-Freedom Fighters would do is find and locate them, but oh well. The design isn't even consistent! In... ...Wait what? *checks the Sonic wiki* Oh. The one Infinite uses isn't even the Phantom Ruby. It's one of the prototypes. One that looks nothing LIKE the Phantom Ruby. It's not even the real thing. You know what? Never mind. Edited February 20, 2018 by WarTraveller NO NO NO this is NOT the proper responce. Check my next post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarTraveller Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 No, no, that's wrong. That's not how we're supposed to respond to stuff like this. I am truly sorry. I...kind of got a bit angry because I personally hate this game so much. I made this thread to help ask what could improve this game, and it would be extremely callous of me to go against my own rules. That said; 12 hours ago, Mike Arcade said: How would you handle the Phantom Ruby in Sonic Forces? Simple. I would play it up as how it was shown in Mania; as a sort of strange, alien ruby that warps reality and defies explanation. The stuff it creates would actually BE there, not just be illusions that somehow hurt you. I'd even go a step further and suggest/imply a link to something...darker. Maybe the Echidnas made it (I mean it DID show up in Angel Island), maybe it's an Artefact of Dark Gaia, perhaps even make it a Chutulu expy? This franchise could do with a bit more lore, after all. Another thing I would do would be to show that the Ruby cancels out the powers of the Chaos Emeralds. Not only would that help relate it further to Dark Gaia, as its energy was the only other thing that has managed to do so (at least, with Eggman's machinery), but it would also smooth over the plothole of why the Resistance don't just bolt for the Emeralds as soon as Eggman takes over. It would also be consistent with how it was portrayed in the final boss with Sonic Mania. I think that's the main issue with the Ruby in Forces; inconsistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicSatamX93 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Here's my opinion on this topic and game: I think Sonic Forces should have been a mix of Dragon Ball Xenoverse, Dynasty Warriors and Star Wars Battlefront 2(The 2005 one) For starters, instead of just getting to ally with Sonic and his friends to save the world from Eggman, I say make it so your character can join 3 different factions: Team Sonic, the Eggman Empire and even G.U.N if they wish, allying with any of them and even possibly defecting from one to join another. Maybe even have it so your character can have the choice to help none of the above and try to save the planet themselves vigilante style or even possibly take it over as a villain if they choose to. That to me would give the game alot more replayabilty to say the least. As for the plot, I'd rewrite it to where Infinite took over the world after stealing the Phantom Ruby from Eggman and used its power to throw the world into chaos, causing destruction and mayhem for not only Sonic's group, but Eggman's and G.U.N's too. And now all 3 of them are trying to fight back and restore the mess Infinite has made. THAT would actually make Sonic's line about cleaning up the planet at the end of the game alot more meaningful in comparison The avatar character creation mode should have been alot more detailed and expanded, using more species to choose from, even possibly getting to choose to play as a human, a cyborg, whether human or Mobian or even a full on robot like Omega. That and have alot more weapons and skills to pick from to actually make your character feel unique since while alot of the attacks were interesting, they basically were all the same in a sense. They all did the same amount of damage. The only difference is how they attacked. I think what they should have been was the weapon you choose starts off weak, but gets stronger as you fight with it and gain experience on top of rings as a currency used to upgrade it. That way, it actually feels like your character gets development during the campaign, going from a so-so rookie to a hardcore warrior and when you finally defeat Infinite and whoever else you choose to oppose, your journey feels all the more satisfying. There was no satisfaction how your avatar character saved the day because it was painfully contrived how they helped. Not to mention Sonic pretty much steals your character's thunder once he returns, so what was the point of having an OC character to begin with? -.- As for the combat system, I'd go with a mix of Dynasty Warriors and Star Wars Battlefront 2, where you fight on a huge map, having your character defeat enemies in its path. Like Dynasty Warriors, you will siege enemy bases and take them over and once you do take all the bases or destroy the enemy units on the map completely, you win and that territory is yours to do with as you please, using it to upgrade your arsenal and even customize to your liking as the guy in this video said. Like Star Wars Battlefront 2, have a bit of a ranking system where you start off getting assistance from soldiers of the same rank as you and once you earn enough points or complete certain objectives, you can unlock assistance from more of the iconic cast, like Sonic, Tails, Shadow, Amy, Knuckles, Rouge, etc. That way you earn the right to get the help of the more powerful characters of the series instead of it being handed to you. Also, like Battlefront 2, I'd even have vehicles on certain maps that you could use or steal from enemy troops, but to keep them balanced, I'd make it so you'd have to have an engineer skill to utilize them properly to compensate for the fact they'd be a bit OP like the ones in Battlefront 2. Lastly, I'd use a hub world system similar to Dragon Ball Xenoverse's, one where it's a huge area to roam around in, talk to comrades, form friendships and your personal team of Freedom Fighters, test your skills against them in friendly sparring matches, buy items to use in a later battle, even upgrading your skills and weapons when earning enough rings to do so to get stronger. Heck, I'd even throw in a local and online battle system like Xenoverse's where two avatar character could spar against each other to sharpen their skills and gain experience points to become stronger. And as an added bonus, once you beat the game, you can unlock the official cast to play as in future battles for even more replayability. To me, this is my idea of the perfect Sonic Forces game, one where you actually feel like you're fighting for the rights of the planet in all out battle royale. Yea, I know making a game of this caliber would be a massive undertaking, but you know, I believe a game like this could be done if SEGA cared enough to try. But yea, let's be honest. THEY DON'T, and I highly doubt they ever will either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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