What Could Have Been Different: The 2000s Era

[Mike Arcade]

In this WCHBD we take a gaze upon what if such changes were to have effected the most critical and polarizing era of Sonic's history. To bite the bullet with this one I'll ask one simple thing...

What if the game Shadow the Hedgehog never happened?

[Wulfsbane]

Apparently for Sonic Heroes, the teams were gonna be very different:

https://twitter.com/SonicJPNews/status/989898578595405826

Some rather interesting combinations. And the thing about Shadow? Well...

 

 

So how do you guys think the teams would have gone?

[WarTraveller]

Well I guess that explains why Shadow's story for a few games was so rough and tumbled. They really didn't want him to return. I...think he shouldn't have, though. Also Chaos didn't die. He's a god, he kind of can't. And Gamma being dead didn't stop them from bringing him back in Battle for the GBA, so all the stuff around Shadow makes even less sense - and paints SEGA as even more unstable and incompetant that I thought!

On the plus side, it does show us that Mighty, Bean, Bark and the like WERE actually intended to return in some fashion. Perhaps they really did want to bring them into the Modern (or in this case, retroactively Dreamcast) era. I guess upper management put a bit of a stop to that, probably because one team in particular wouldn't make much sense and the others would probably be too ambitious for both the consoles and the timeframe on display here. I guess after that, Shadow and the infamous reboot that forced a lot of those characters to go away, they probably deemed it too risky to use them again - until Sonic Mania, of course, which clearly showed less risk of them cameoing.

Which makes me wonder, if a Sonic Heroes 2 ever happens (which is extremely unlikely now that Mania's success and Forces'...not success paints a clear picture of Sonic's future), I wonder if any of those beta teams would be finalised and would return?

[Wulfsbane]

1 hour ago, WarTraveller said:

Well I guess that explains why Shadow's story for a few games was so rough and tumbled. They really didn't want him to return. I...think he shouldn't have, though. Also Chaos didn't die. He's a god, he kind of can't. And Gamma being dead didn't stop them from bringing him back in Battle for the GBA, so all the stuff around Shadow makes even less sense - and paints SEGA as even more unstable and incompetant that I thought!

On the plus side, it does show us that Mighty, Bean, Bark and the like WERE actually intended to return in some fashion. Perhaps they really did want to bring them into the Modern (or in this case, retroactively Dreamcast) era. I guess upper management put a bit of a stop to that, probably because one team in particular wouldn't make much sense and the others would probably be too ambitious for both the consoles and the timeframe on display here. I guess after that, Shadow and the infamous reboot that forced a lot of those characters to go away, they probably deemed it too risky to use them again - until Sonic Mania, of course, which clearly showed less risk of them cameoing.

Which makes me wonder, if a Sonic Heroes 2 ever happens (which is extremely unlikely now that Mania's success and Forces'...not success paints a clear picture of Sonic's future), I wonder if any of those beta teams would be finalised and would return?

I dont think Sega was "unstable and incompetent" or that they didn't want him to return. I think in the terms of Heroes it would be odd to have Shadow return after his perceived death (though if they go with the Shadow Android route as they kinda did in Shadow it would make sense). Omega did say at the end of Dark's Story that Eggman "needed the real one" so there's a few ways they could play that off.

The PS2 could have handled the 5 teams at 14 stages a piece. I mean you can take a look at San Andreas for example and RockStar took the PS2 to it's limits. Remember, this was the initial plan for Heroes so over the course of development things can and will change. Take a look at any E3 footage from a game like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Assassin's Creed, and even Mario for example: there are things shown that don't make it to the final game, whether if it's due to time constants, unable to get something to work on full scale, or perhaps a change in story. We honestly do not know why the things changed the way they did and we might not learn.

Forces sold about 1.3 million copies, about the same as Mania. Much better than recent games outside of Generations

[WarTraveller]

So here's an interesting one... 

According to internal files, Metal Sonic was not only to feature in Sonic 06, but be playable as well. If he was to be in the game, what role would he serve? How would he play? 

[Mike Arcade]

It looks like these questions need some answers to them, I however am glad to do so! XP

On 4/10/2018 at 1:41 AM, Mike Arcade said:

What if the game Shadow the Hedgehog never happened?

How fitting I start off with the question nobody cares about XP
Oh wait that's my-anyway, I believe had Shadow the Hedgehog not happened perhaps the development for the next gen Sonic game of that time could have started a lot earlier and had been properly tested and finished as intended, not Sonic 06 mind you but perhaps that or something else in it's place. Considering they wanted to tell some sort of concluding arc with Shadow it would have been good to do so alongside Sonic in the 15th anniversary game rather than just have his own separate game. Really would have cut the fat from the series in hindsight and would have not given Shadow his more "edgier" view among some fans.
 

On 4/28/2018 at 7:41 AM, Wulfsbane said:

So how do you guys think the teams would have gone?

This literally blew my mind when I saw this and I can't thank you enough Wulfsbane for showing this to me.
If these 6 teams were in fact the defining teams of the game it would have forever changed the entire Sonic Series going forward. Although I'm not sure if Team Adventure (Chaos, E-102 Gamma, and Big) would have worked in a story, I mean it's technically possible but I could see them as an extra team for completion or multiplayer purposes. I'll go with the implication that they were meant to be in the story however. For one I think that Tikal generally as a spirit orb as seen giving hints in SA1 would have spoken for Chaos in the game as well as giving her own opinion on the team as well, perhaps even set up this team to stop a certain calamity of sorts that Eggman is or was planning that got Tikal and Chaos' attention. After all Chaos showed up in Battle due to something similar with the Emeralds and Emerl. Team Hooligan (Fang, Bark, Bean) could easily be Incorporated into Heroes for whatever reason. Only team that changes everything yet makes little sense is the one with Metal Sonic, perhaps he would have Omega's motivation and seeing that the doctor is up to something Mighty and Ray temporarily join up with the robot. Regardless of how that version of Heroes would fold out nor who the final enemy would be instead it would have given the series more characters to play around with throughout the series and make the games less empty with more of a cast.
Especially since Shadow is not in here as a playable character and still believed to be dead, even if they wanted to bring him back at least next time around or even his own game in it would be a huge surprise to see his return unlike what we got in the Sonic Heroes we have now. Honestly while Maekawa-san said that developing these teams would have been hell, considering what ended up happening they should have gone through hell making Heroes, would have saved the series much trouble in the long run.
 

On 4/30/2018 at 9:37 PM, WarTraveller said:

According to internal files, Metal Sonic was not only to feature in Sonic 06, but be playable as well. If he was to be in the game, what role would he serve? How would he play?

I heard about that before myself, most likely the case for that would have been much like in Sonic Adventure DX and it's PC port as an extra or completion bonus with Metal Sonic playable in all of Sonic's Stages. So pretty much a skin only with cosmetic changes and different animations. Now if it were regarding story purposes, probably there to serve Eggman and give the 3 Hedgehogs a boss battle for each of them. Highly doubt he'd have a main character slot on there, and if he did I guess his story would be akin to remembering his Heroes stint and trying to turn on Eggman with Mephelis goading him into it. Not likely though, I don't see him ever getting a traditional super form. But as a nice extra being playable it would have been cool.

[SonicSatamX93]

I'm surprised nobody's asked this question yet, but...

If Sonic 06 was ever to be remade, how would you do it?

[Wulfsbane]

So there's an interesting tidbit about Blaze that was scrapped in the Japanese manual for Sonic '06:

Blaze styles herself as protector and controller of the Sol Emeralds (which are antithetical to the Chaos Emeralds).
She comes from another dimension, where she plays a role similar to that of Sonic and Knuckles combined. Normally very cool and collected, deep down, she harbors very real emotions. If she is angered and loses her composure, she can be a frightening woman indeed.

She is shy and withdrawn, and puts up walls between herself and other people. (As a result, she ends up building up upon her own secret feelings.)

Typically, she wears a cape.  This is to hide the fact that her body can control flames, which she was treated strangely for when she was younger, and so she makes a point to only use it when necessary. When push comes to show, though, she will toss of her cape and become quite proactive indeed. She has a rather unique costume on under her cape, and it also seems that she is bothered by underendowed chest (comments on which will rouse her anger).

Apparently Blaze is “bothered” that she has a small chest... despite still being that age where she would still be growing. Most of the text made it over to the Japanese and US version of the manual and I believe were used as the official descriptions for a time. Yet the bolden part was going to be apart of the Japanese manual but was scrapped for reasons unknown.

Why was that necessary for the game manual in Japan? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It does provide an interesting, abet very strange, characteristic for Blaze.

[WarTraveller]

On 9/3/2018 at 10:42 PM, Wulfsbane said:

Why was that necessary for the game manual in Japan? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It does provide an interesting, abet very strange, characteristic for Blaze.

Ooooooooooh yes, that's actually been known for a good long while. Kind of goes without saying that it's not close to canon at this point, but it also goes without saying that some fans took "Blaze thinks her breasts are too small" and ran with it far across the hills. All fine and dandy...until you remember that Blaze is only 14. Is a 14-year old really supposed to be worried about something of that nature? Is this just another Japan-only thing or are SEGA into some rather weird stuff?

[Wulfsbane]

4 hours ago, WarTraveller said:

Is this just another Japan-only thing or are SEGA into some rather weird stuff?

Both?

[WarTraveller]

On 9/10/2018 at 6:14 AM, Wulfsbane said:

Both?

Yep, probably both. This Is, after all, the same company who used Hooters to advertise their game in what they are absolutely adamant is a kids game franchise. 

[Wulfsbane]

5 hours ago, WarTraveller said:

Yep, probably both. This Is, after all, the same company who used Hooters to advertise their game in what they are absolutely adamant is a kids game franchise. 

Hooters in Japan is apparently a bit different than the one in the US

[WarTraveller]

On 9/11/2018 at 3:56 PM, Wulfsbane said:

Hooters in Japan is apparently a bit different than the one in the US

It's still using oversized mammory glands and small amounts of bodily cloth to sell supposedly terrible chicken wings coated in a spiced sauce. I'm not exactly sure HOW different it can be when that is the general concept behind it.

Of course, that said, how does it differ in Japan?

[MoKat]

Given the contents of their website/online menu ("Hooters is the Casual American Dining & Sports Bar,bringing you Hot Wings,
Juicy Burgers, Fresh Seafood, Beers, and Hooters Girls") and several You Tube videos (linked below), I'd say "not by much".

HOOTERS tokyo japan

HOOTERS | Hooters Osaka | Hommachi | Japan

[TheRedStranger]

We all know Sonic is not really concerned about beer and loose busty women. He’s into Processed food and brainy squirrel girls with big hips. XD 

 

Anyways - I wonder what would happen if Shadow The Hedgehog was more viable and thus became more successful, rather than light hearted Sonic Hero's. How would this influence the Sonic franchise?

[MoKat]

On 4/10/2018 at 12:41 AM, Mike Arcade said:

What if the game Shadow the Hedgehog never happened?

We wouldn't have speedruns like this one, in which EasySpeezy abuses a glitch:

I tried speedrunning Shadow the Hedgehog and the edginess physically hurt me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER0wuna3T7g

🤣