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This thread will be devoted to weapons and vehicles of the world wars. To start off, what if I told you Nazi Germany had planned a fleet of Aircraft Carriers of their own? In 1935, Hitler and Admiral Raeder, the leader of the German Kriegsmarine’s surface navy would enact a naval rearmament program known as Plan Z. This plan would have Germany build a navy to match both Britain and France by 1945 at the earliest. A part of this plan was a class of two purpose built carriers known as the Graf Zeppelin class along with a conversion carrier from one of the heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper class ship, Seydlitz to later to be rechristened Weser. These ships and new designs on paper and other planned conversions were in the works at first. All of them with the role of supporting Battleship and U-boat commerce raiding along with naval defensive operations. However, these projects were plagued with problems and obstacles from within and without. 
 

one of these problems came in the form of experience. Germany had never built or tested an aircraft carrier unlike Britain, Japan or the United States. So, they had to take notes and observe the building and operation of ships like USS Wasp and IJN Shokaku. Also, command and aircraft production problems were another factor. In operations, it’s likely Graf Zeppelin, her sister and the Weser would have a compliment of Ju 87 stukas in both the role of Dive and Torpedo bombing or the fiesler 167 torpedo bombers. However, the fighter protection was another matter. The Me 109 was the mainstay fighter of that time. though it could be modified for carrier operations but it would still have the landing gear problems which had and would plague the plane throughout its production life. To add further insult to injury, Herman Goering, the head of the Luftwaffe, was not willing to allow the Kriegsmarine command of an air arm and sought to cede control of the aircraft carrier which Admiral Raeder vehemently opposed. but the final nail in the coffin to this Aircraft carrier fleet was the course of the war itself. Not just due to the misfortune of the surface fleet throughout the war such as the sinking of the Bismarck and the allied bombing raids Of German Home and occupied ports but also Germany’s military successes. With France’s quick capitulation, the need for an aircraft carrier support and escort of surface ships and u-boats was not needed. 
 

In the end, the Weser was scuttled in harbor in January of 1945 along Graf Zeppelin in April of that same year. But the USSR would seize, refloat and repair the Graf Zeppelin and would be used as test target for anti-aircraft weaponry against British and American carriers and with disappointing results for the Russians prompting them to scuttle the ship several miles off the coast of Gdańsk, Poland. 
 

So I ask you, how would the US and Royal navies handled the Graf Zeppelin and Weser had Goering not been Goering and were used in naval operations by the Kriegsmarine. Could these ships have turned the tide of the battle of the Atlantic back in Hitler’s favor? How do you think they would have compared to American and British carriers? 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_aircraft_carrier_Graf_Zeppelin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Seydlitz

http://www.admiral-hipper-class.dk/seydlitz_luetzow/seydlitz_ships_design/seydlitz_ships_design.html


Edit: The planes these ships would use  

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On 6/20/2020 at 8:46 PM, Akessel92 said:

This thread will be devoted to weapons and vehicles of the world wars. To start off, what if I told you Nazi Germany had planned a fleet of Aircraft Carriers of their own? In 1935, Hitler and Admiral Raeder, the leader of the German Kriegsmarine’s surface navy would enact a naval rearmament program known as Plan Z. This plan would have Germany build a navy to match both Britain and France by 1945 at the earliest. A part of this plan was a class of two purpose built carriers known as the Graf Zeppelin class along with a conversion carrier from one of the heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper class ship, Seydlitz to later to be rechristened Weser. These ships and new designs on paper and other planned conversions were in the works at first. All of them with the role of supporting Battleship and U-boat commerce raiding along with naval defensive operations. However, these projects were plagued with problems and obstacles from within and without. 
 

one of these problems came in the form of experience. Germany had never built or tested an aircraft carrier unlike Britain, Japan or the United States. So, they had to take notes and observe the building and operation of ships like USS Wasp and IJN Shokaku. Also, command and aircraft production problems were another factor. In operations, it’s likely Graf Zeppelin, her sister and the Weser would have a compliment of Ju 87 stukas in both the role of Dive and Torpedo bombing or the fiesler 167 torpedo bombers. However, the fighter protection was another matter. The Me 109 was the mainstay fighter of that time. though it could be modified for carrier operations but it would still have the landing gear problems which had and would plague the plane throughout its production life. To add further insult to injury, Herman Goering, the head of the Luftwaffe, was not willing to allow the Kriegsmarine command of an air arm and sought to cede control of the aircraft carrier which Admiral Raeder vehemently opposed. but the final nail in the coffin to this Aircraft carrier fleet was the course of the war itself. Not just due to the misfortune of the surface fleet throughout the war such as the sinking of the Bismarck and the allied bombing raids Of German Home and occupied ports but also Germany’s military successes. With France’s quick capitulation, the need for an aircraft carrier support and escort of surface ships and u-boats was not needed. 
 

In the end, the Weser was scuttled in harbor in January of 1945 along Graf Zeppelin in April of that same year. But the USSR would seize, refloat and repair the Graf Zeppelin and would be used as test target for anti-aircraft weaponry against British and American carriers and with disappointing results for the Russians prompting them to scuttle the ship several miles off the coast of Gdańsk, Poland. 
 

So I ask you, how would the US and Royal navies handled the Graf Zeppelin and Weser had Goering not been Goering and were used in naval operations by the Kriegsmarine. Could these ships have turned the tide of the battle of the Atlantic back in Hitler’s favor? How do you think they would have compared to American and British carriers? 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_aircraft_carrier_Graf_Zeppelin

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Seydlitz

http://www.admiral-hipper-class.dk/seydlitz_luetzow/seydlitz_ships_design/seydlitz_ships_design.html


Edit: The planes these ships would use  

In all of your research, what is the most atypical (or experimental) naval vessel you have seen? 

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On 6/22/2020 at 6:52 PM, TheRedStranger said:

In all of your research, what is the most atypical (or experimental) naval vessel you have seen? 

That would be the Japanese I-400 carrier submarines

these submarines were designed to carry three float plane bombers in a watertight hanger to attack western mainland coastal cities and the Panama Canal. When the submarine surfaced the hangars are opened and the float planes are deployed with their wings unfolded and launched via an air catapult into the air. after their missions are completed, they land in the water preferably in clear and calm weather, a crane pulls them up out of the water wings fold back and are stowed aboard, sealed and slip away. 
 

Luckily, only two submarines were built and operations against the west coast and the Panama Canal were not feasible to the Japanese. Ultimately these craft were captured by United States, Studied and scuttled to prevent them from one of them falling into the hands of Stalin. 

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23 hours ago, Akessel92 said:

That would be the Japanese I-400 carrier submarines

these submarines were designed to carry three float plane bombers in a watertight hanger to attack western mainland coastal cities and the Panama Canal. When the submarine surfaced the hangars are opened and the float planes are deployed with their wings unfolded and launched via an air catapult into the air. after their missions are completed, they land in the water preferably in clear and calm weather, a crane pulls them up out of the water wings fold back and are stowed aboard, sealed and slip away. 
 

Luckily, only two submarines were built and operations against the west coast and the Panama Canal were not feasible to the Japanese. Ultimately these craft were captured by United States, Studied and scuttled to prevent them from one of them falling into the hands of Stalin. 

Sounds like they had fundamental design problems. I could gather it’s quite a hassle sealing with these getting in and out of the hanger. Then the balance issues... However this design could be rethought in the age of UAV’s.

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46 minutes ago, TheRedStranger said:

Sounds like they had fundamental design problems. I could gather it’s quite a hassle sealing with these getting in and out of the hanger. Then the balance issues... However this design could be rethought in the age of UAV’s.

Indeed. speaking of UAVs, how about the granddaddy of them. the TDN-1. A pilotless aircraft having the ability to carry 2,000 lb bombs or a torpedo. However, it would be relegated to second line service and be used as a flying target aircraft for pilot training. 

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1 minute ago, Akessel92 said:

Indeed. speaking of UAVs, how about the granddaddy of them. the TDN-1. A pilotless aircraft having the ability to carry 2,000 lb bombs or a torpedo. However, it would be relegated to second line service and be used as a flying target aircraft for pilot training. 

That's fascinating that there was drones during that time, but the technology goes make sense. We have had RC's for ages after all. I would gather they were decommissioned from such work due to the ease of hacking via radio frequency.

Here is the funny kicker to all this:

Quote

In an example of the use of companies traditionally uninvolved in the aviation industry to reduce interference with higher priority projects, production of the final thirty aircraft was licensed to the Brunswick-Balke-Collender Company, a Michigan-based manufacturer of bowling balls and billiard tables.[6]

😆

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The topic "black light" carbines came up in recent issues of American Rifleman and one reader mentioned a Wehrmacht Vampir rifle. A quick search brought up a Wikipedia entry that stated:

Quote

The ZG 1229 Vampir 1229 (ZG 1229), also known in its code name Vampir, was an active infrared device developed for the Wehrmacht for the Sturmgewehr 44 assault rifle during World War II, intended primarily for night use.

Apparently that reader was talking about a Wehrmacht with a Vampir on it (?) The Wiki entry only had 2 references, and I haven't been able to dig up much more on it. Do you know anything more about it?

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4 hours ago, MoKat said:

The topic "black light" carbines came up in recent issues of American Rifleman and one reader mentioned a Wehrmacht Vampir rifle. A quick search brought up a Wikipedia entry that stated:

Apparently that reader was talking about a Wehrmacht with a Vampir on it (?) The Wiki entry only had 2 references, and I haven't been able to dig up much more on it. Do you know anything more about it?

Ah yes.  The German Vampir sight was quite the interesting device. The infantry device required a thirty pound battery pack to power the device. There were other devices for the use on machine guns and an upscale device for use by panther tanks and a 60cm spotlight slapped onto a hanomag sdkfz 251 half track which allowed both infantry and tanks to work in tandem in night attacks. DE21AEA5-F352-41DC-BA16-50EBF7F97E23.jpeg.a7b4757824849ec3d16f8ba88b55df19.jpeg
The soldiers that used these devices were called Nachtjaegars or night hunters. The vampir infrared sights appeared in use late in the war and were sparingly amongst the Wehrmacht but the bulk would be in the hands of the Waffen-SS. 

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23 hours ago, Sargent Beeler. said:

Hey @Akessel92 - Red told me you have a diploma in history. How hard was to really maintain and shoot black powder rifles in the early 1800's? How did they account for the steps to reload, while keeping a constant fire rate for rifle men back then?

For accounting steps to load and reload black powder, it was often drilled into those who used them. First primer or percussion cap, next load barrel with powder, ram with the rod down wadding so the powder is sealed in the barrel, then load the ball in with the rod, take rod out, aim and fire. 
 

it was quite difficult to clean and maintain as you didn’t clean them with what we have today. They used brushes made with wood and animal hair. Shooting i don’t think was the difficult part, shooting accurately was the problem. 

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Ww2 guns, you say?! Oooh, I do like my some WW2 guns, especially the experimental ones.

Wimmersperg Spz | Gun Wiki | Fandom

Behold, the Wimmerspeg Spz! Part Sten, part STG, all desperation weapon, it never got beyond the drawing phase outside of a few modern replicas and an appearance in the WW2 FPS, Call of Duty: WW2.

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On 8/23/2020 at 7:18 AM, WarTraveller said:

Ww2 guns, you say?! Oooh, I do like my some WW2 guns, especially the experimental ones.

Wimmersperg Spz | Gun Wiki | Fandom

Behold, the Wimmerspeg Spz! Part Sten, part STG, all desperation weapon, it never got beyond the drawing phase outside of a few modern replicas and an appearance in the WW2 FPS, Call of Duty: WW2.

Now this is a prime example of the desperation the Nazi German military was in in the waning months of the war. German arms manufacturers made equipment like the Volkssturmgewehr assault rifle, the MP-3008 and simplified versions of Mauser 98 rifle made by Mauser, Walther, and Steyr. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_3008#/media/File%3AMP_3008_Sub_Machine_Gun.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturmgewehr

A lot of these weapons are crudely made and of poor quality throwing  quality and Over-engineering the traits of German weapon manufacturing standard. 
 

though the Germans desperation was nothing compared to Imperial Japanese weapon manufacturing in the closing of WWII. 

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On 8/24/2020 at 9:38 AM, Akessel92 said:

Now this is a prime example of the desperation the Nazi German military was in in the waning months of the war. German arms manufacturers made equipment like the Volkssturmgewehr assault rifle, the MP-3008 and simplified versions of Mauser 98 rifle made by Mauser, Walther, and Steyr. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_3008#/media/File%3AMP_3008_Sub_Machine_Gun.jpg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkssturmgewehr

A lot of these weapons are crudely made and of poor quality throwing  quality and Over-engineering the traits of German weapon manufacturing standard. 
 

though the Germans desperation was nothing compared to Imperial Japanese weapon manufacturing in the closing of WWII. 

Didn’t Germany use coal-based oil and potato’s for fuel?

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New York City luxury buildings hire armed guards for possible Election Day unrest:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-city-luxury-buildings-armed-guards-election-day-unrest

Apparently rich white liberals are allowed to have such guns, but want to ban them for you. Goes to show this not about wealth inequality, but power inequality by sawing the bottom rungs of the social ladder through government coercion. You can’t buy something to defend your life, but they can afford the lawyers and loopholes to make that fast. Thankfully, it’s going to get a lot harder to snatch guns out of hands lately after this recent trend:
 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/24/business/gun-sales-surge-black-americans-women/index.html

It’s good to see ‘black’ Americans take self-defense in their own hands. As a person who has been a victim of a crime - I can tell you, the cops are always about 30 minutes away. They can only do so much in so little of time, let alone absorb what’s happening the way you can as the receiver of all the criminal experience. I have had to keep a gun on my hip and prepare for a drunk felon to attack my grandfather and disabled friend. Rode through their yard on dirtbike (and nearly ran over a neighbor). He never came around again once we saw we had heat.  But it took them way to long to come. If he wanted to hurt someone, he had a wonderful window of time.

 

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Hoooh yeah, I've seen all these before. I genuinely do not understand what some people are thinking when kludging these together. So heat shields, threaded barrels and pistol grips are "SICK AND WRONG"...but these are fine?

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